What nation you admire the most?

We should cut back on those a little bit and give the left overs to Finland.

But as of right now Kali is right in the that China is not a superpower and has no geopolitical ability to do so at the moment, military wise there still a sham and are worth nothing, economically they are rising but no one ever reports on there massive debt and there dependence on European and american trade.

Those are left overs from the Cold War right ?!

M.I.R.Vs we allways need them.

Yea were the fuck does Russia need them
why wont they just keep 400-700 nukes I mean it must cost lost money to watch after them

I say cut back to 200 nukes and just keep it there.

But remember that a lot of Russian nukes are stored in random Siberian warehouses and probably would malfunction if fired....

True, true. Though a global thermonuclear war would be pretty.

You wouldn't get to see most of it with your blind eyes though...

Fine, I was wrong.[according to the recent Pew review]
I still maintain, however, that not everyone has the Anti-Chinese view that you have and that the views of the South Korean population still reflect favorably enough on the Chinese people that they would not reject them out of hand as you suggest. I hold that this is not evidenced by their actions, specifically their rapidly increasing trade and China's increasing cultural influence on both Koreas. I hold that the 'fear of China's growing military power' in the reports is largely overblown.

I believe that you are taking the reviews and blowing them out of proportion, taking a mere dislike for China on certain issues and making it into a causus belli for an economic/political/military war on China. I really doubt that China will end up in a major conflict with South Korea based on the opinions that are given in the reviews, nor that the U.S. has such a sway on the people of Korea as to convince them that China is 'evil'.

http://pewresearch.org/pubs/23/the-prob ... ptionalism
Not specifically regarding South Korea, but the U.S. is not so rosy as you portray it to be.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/04/ ... 6737.shtml

http://www.brookings.edu/papers/2003/07china_chung.aspx

On 'superpower'. Found this while poking around the Pew site:
[no, this is not meant to support either side of the debate, just thought it would be useful]
http://www.pewglobal.org/2011/07/13/chi ... uperpower/

As for U.S.-China-world relations:
http://pewresearch.org/pubs/1867/media- ... china-news
http://pewresearch.org/pubs/1855/china- ... ade-policy
http://pewresearch.org/pubs/1795/poll-f ... pan-canada
http://pewresearch.org/pubs/1428/americ ... ent-surges
http://pewresearch.org/pubs/1409/obama- ... outh-korea
http://pewresearch.org/pubs/656/how-the ... sees-china
I don't know Kali. I'm just not seeing this legendary hate for China that you are portraying.

Though there is this:
http://pewresearch.org/pubs/249/publics ... ne-another
Not that any of it is any surprise. Nothing new.

Oh, and just putting this out there:
http://pewresearch.org/pubs/776/china-internet

What the hell is PEW?

Mmm... can't really explain it too well. Ask Kali, he seems more familiar than I am.
I've heard of it before and poked around, but this is the first time that I've actually decided to use it to such an extent in a debate.

Other than that: check out the site. I've found some of the reviews to be interesting in the past.

Anyone who thinks China is a rising power is clearly wrong. They have no control over there economy, there still not a maritime power, and there trapped by there Geology. Next even if China maintained there current growth there would still be a billion people living under the poverty line. China is pretty much the Japan of the 1980s (and we all know what happen to Japan then)


*When America sneezes, China catches cold.

You mean like everybody other than you?
Military officers, politicians, economists, etc. all agree that China is a growing power.
If China is not a rising power, then why all the worry? Why all the interest?

LOL. Then why are people always complaining about China's control of their economy? About the 'trade deficit'? About the new property taxes? About the new growth in the building sectors?

Define 'maritime power'. Of the nations with carriers, only the U.S. has more than one. Even Russia is only in the process of building more than one. By that definition, nobody but the U.S. is a power.
Unless I am mistaken, it goes [concerning maritine powers -greatest and down the list]
1. The U.S.
2. Russia
3. China

In modern time? And what are we talking about? Trapped from annexing neighbors? What kind of reasoning is this? It makes no sense. After the U.S., as individual countries go, China is number two.

I believe that this is a gross exaggeration of the issue. And in recent years, China's middle class has boomed. And if it slows, so what? Most people can handle living under the poverty line. In fact, the Chinese government spends quite alot of money every year helping the below-poverty-line population.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/ma ... overty-gap
It is slightly bias against China, but the facts are still there.

Correction, they're socialist, which means the government actually controls MOST of the economy.

That is total military power.
If you go by number of warships it is,
1.) US
2.) North Korea (WTF!!!???)
3.) China
4.) Sweden (WTF!!!???)
5.) Turkey (WTF!!!???)

Well it still means the same thing, they control MOST of their own economy.