State Socialism

The "real world" almost always means living independently.

Hey man, he's seen the real world, his parents have taken him all over the world and he's only like 14, I think he knows something about poverty and economics, he read communist literature you know!

I know indepedent people who are anarchists, several of them actually.

Not the point. No one here has asserted that you can't subscribe to ideology X while living independently.

I find it ironic that a 16 year old should attack a 14 year old for 'Not having enough life experience'. If you're going to use that argument, you don't have any right to hold, or argue a political position either.

Just because your ideology is currently dominant doesn't give you the right to make such arguments, or make you superior in maturity, or intelligence.

Edit: Also, do you have any idea who stupid the 'YOU'RE ONLY RED BECAUSE IT'S COOL' argument is? If I wanted to be cool, I wouldn't choose an ideology that is demonized by the popular media in pretty much the whole world, and which will have you disowned, and distrusted for being open about. If I really wanted to be edgy and cool, I would pick something like say, Libertarianism. That's all the rage among young people these days.

I see your point.

Yes, of course I don't have much life experience. But neither does almost anyone else on these forums. Kali, he goes to college, that's still not the real world. Shaw is 16. Sly is my age and lives in my neighborhood. So, before you write me off for no life experience, remember yourselves. Not to mention, intelligence isn't a fair argument because there are many 15 or 16 year olds smarter than college students, and many college students smarter than 30 year olds. Plus, if you are going to use the life experiene argument, then Kali's former argument about age differences is invalid, because there is a huge leap between the life experience of a 19 year old and 23 year old. As opposed to the difference in "experience" between a 19 year old and a 15 year old.

No, not in that context. Someone said, "You haven't seen the real world" or something like that. When used with the word see, it usually means the actual world.

Your really getting on my nerves. You admit you haven't seen nearly so much of the US or world than me. Have you ever been to New York city (probably) or Philidelphia? Someone who is 15 and has traveled much of the first world has more "life experience" than someone who is 16 and hasn't really left his home. Also, those places weren't on vacation Shaw. I've lived in Oklahoma, Maryland, California, England, and New Jersey. Each place I lived I spent at least two years. Living in all those places means I have more life experience than a 16 year old who has barely left his country and even your state.

Mosh, your response only serves to illustrate how childish and juvenile you are. When I was in high school I never considered myself to be better or even equivalent to people attending college or people living out in the real world working: not in terms of life experience and not in terms of education. You are a child, but you refuse to acknowledge that. You've demonstrated that you aren't even as educated as most standard high school students are, and yet you insist to be treated as an adult. It's positively ludicrous that we should think of you as anything but a spoiled child when you come here and talk about how you've been vacationing in all of these places around the world, don't even know who the father of modern economics is, and yet insist that because you've lived in a capitalist society that you're qualified to make judgements on it, and even further insist that you know what the answer to all of our "problems" is.

The way in which you cling to the title of socialist, even when you must stretch the definition to near-meaninglessness to accomplish it, illustrates that for you, being a socialist is about fitting in. That doesn't mean socialism is popular, but it does mean that you want to be considered one. In your case, which is mirrored all across the country, your comparatively luxurious upbringing, lack or respect for authority, lack of serious education, rebellious nature, and desire to fit in, have made you rally against "the system". It's absolutely cringe-inducing to think that there are other people out there like you, who are clearly too young to even be considering these issues, but decide to attach ideological labels to themselves.

I have no doubt in my mind that you'll be calling yourself something completely and totally different in a year (hell, probably a lot sooner than that). As well you should, because there's no way you could have even been exposed to the necessary information to make that decision yet.

But for now, and until you can actually prove otherwise, you'll be treated as a child. Because, and pardon my French, c'est ce que vous êtes.

Look I haven't bothered to go back and read previous pages, but when it comes to leftism being associated with age here's my two cents:

I read lots of communist stuff when I was in my teens, had a soviet flag hanging in my bedroom and a Che poster on my door, and basically went around pretending to be Lenin by being an abrasive little twat. Plenty of people gave me the condescending "ah, well you live with your parents and go to school, rather than in the real world. You'll grow out of it" treatment. It annoyed me intensely.

Fast forward to 2012, I'm 20, I finished school 3 years ago. I rent a room across town, I live off microwaveable curry, baked beans, tinned tomatoes and toast because it's all I can regularly afford. I do charity work on weekdays to keep my CV padded out and recieve jobseekers allowance from the government to pay my bills with. In short I'm in the same boat as millions of other lower class British people of almost all ages. And you know what? The red flag is packed away in a cardboard box, the volumes of Marx and Lenin are gathering dust in a corner and my best friend votes Conservative, but I'm more of a socialist now than I ever was when I was in school.

So those people who belittle you for not "living in the real world"? Fuck them. You don't need to actually eat a rotten egg to know it tastes like shit.

If you guys ever get really to speak Spanish fluently you should read El hombre mediocre by Jose Ingenieros; sadly it's been translated (I think so)

So are we(meaning you guys) getting back on topic or continue talking about how we are all practically kids?(well except that wierdo called Kali)

The original topic is even stupider.

Alright, I'll just let this one slide into oblivion...

Good for you. Do you want a medal? Neither do I. I never claimed to be in that group that is just as intelligent as college students. I said some, notice how I didn't say I. Next time read the post carfully and think about what your saying.

Excuse me but could you please explain how I'm not as intelligent as most standard high school students? Really? Have you ever been to public high school Kali? You do know the "standard" American high school freshman is a complete dumbass, some don't even know what capitalism or socialism mean. The average American high schooler is also smoking or drinking, to some extent. The average American high schoolers are complete dumbasses, and I believe that's why people like you look down on us. You seem to believe we are all the same.

Spoiled child? Please. Oh I'm always talking about how I'm vacationing in all these places right? News fucking flash, that was the first time I've ever brought up that and I only did because you were talking about the "real world". Yes, because I live in a capitalist society, then yes I'm qualified to make judgements on it. I went around the school today asking people if they had ever heard of Adam Smith. I talked to someone who was in Sly's class, where he insists they spent several days on Adam Smith. Noone knew he was. In fact, the only people that knew who he was were a handful of history teachers. Yes, even some of the teachers didn't know who he was. Its no surprise that I've never heard of the guy. Also, I have never claimed I know the answer to all "problems" are.

Kali, are you fucking blind? Read the OP, I'm not stretching any definitions, not to mention the fact I already conceded that State Socialism is not true socialism as it is defined. Being a socialist is about fitting in? Yeah, go fuck yourself. If I wanted to "fit in" I'd go to some parties, do a little drinking and smoking, and not care about politics at all. Why don't I? Because I really do believe what I say, no matter how far fetched or alien it may seem to you. I know its a schocking revelation, and probably hard for you to understand, but some people disagree with you and they think your wrong. Now take some time to think about that before trying to discredit people because they are "luxurious" or lack respect for authority. When the authority works for a system that is broken, I don't want to fit in, I want to speak out. "Clearly too young to be considering these issues" right? That means much of the forums, including people who frequently support you, obviously have no idea what they are talking about because they aren't glorious college students like you.

No, I will not. Once again, I completely believe what I say. That may shock you. It may frighten or disgust you. But that is not my fault, it is yours. You are completely intolerant to anyone who has differing views from you.

C'est que je suis. Ce n'est pas que vous etes

Now this is in no way a serious reply and is only meant to derail the topic further but:

Carfully... That was hilarious even though it was just a small typo

Wait, you went around your school and asked people if they knew Adam Smith? Doesn't that seem a little... odd and a waste of time just to prove a point on the internet?

TO THE TRANSLATOR MACHINE!!!

Adam Smith sounds like a good place for a nice relaxing vacations. Is it expensive?

Well, a couple people thought he was a president (John Adams). Others thought he was some new actor or singer. Only 3 people even thought he might be a writer. Even once I said exactly what he was, they still couldn't remember ever hearing about him.

I made a new word

No, I was legitimately interested if my teachers were all fucking stupid or I just wasn't paying attention that day. Nope. Apparently its no surprise I've never heard of him, especially since according to Kali I'm less intelligent than the "average" teenager.

I'm in french class currently, I actually did that without translator. Although my grammar was probably a little off, there is always one little mistake. I almost forgot the apostrophe in n'est...
And I was at school so I didn't have time to put the circumflex over the first "e" in etes.

If it makes you feel better about your teachers, our English teacher (that lived some years in USA zomg!!1!1!!) didn't know when the WWII started and finished.

Yeah I only know him because I heard something about him at a lecture on Enlightenment.

Yeah I don't know what you're talking about. I got English and German as my foreign languages

I like how Warburg forms part of the Generation Dickbutt