Star Wars Interest Thread

Discussion in 'Roleplaying Games' started by Skyicewolf, Jun 28, 2012.

  1. PineappleJoe Well-Known Member

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    The leaders of the droids came to power. Saying the clones won is like saying that if the german army in world war 2 simply stopped fighting but all the other countries became Nazis and under Hitlers rule, that they still lost.
    Cunt.
  2. Imperial1917 City-States God of War

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    The victors write the history and the clones were on the winning side.
  3. PineappleJoe Well-Known Member

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    The only victory was the sith VS jedi where the sith won. Effectively taking control of the republic, they therfore had no need of the gigantic lumbering CIS army so they deactivated it. Although it is completely retarded as the CIS army was superior. Though with the allowance of human recruits into the imperial army took care of this gigantic problem in the lore.
  4. UnitRico Well-Known Member

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    Actually, George Lucas wrote the history in this case.
  5. Imperial1917 City-States God of War

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    1) Having an army that can be deactivated with a push of a button tends not to be a good thing, especially tactically.
    If not for the actions of the Emperor and if the war was not just a power manuver, real commanders would have located the factories on Mustufar eventually and send a small group of clones to win the war by pushing a button.
    2) One on one, the clones are better than droids. This is beyond question. Remember also that clones won quite a few of the battles where they fought in the open with the droids, even when they were outnumbered.

    No! NO! Bad dinosaur! :mad:
  6. UnitRico Well-Known Member

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    To be fair, the only way Anakin could land on Mustafar was because the confederacy was already Palpatine's bitch. Locating the factory wouldn't mean they could just walk in and shut the place down whenever they wanted to.
  7. LordZell New Member

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    guys can we just say everybody right it's getting old go into a different fight at least.
  8. UnitRico Well-Known Member

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    Hah, you haven't been here for long, have you?
  9. Imperial1917 City-States God of War

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    But they would eventually. The factories there were producing their enemies and thus would have been a prime target for the GAR.
    And why couldn't they? Even if they couldn't send the commands from Mustufar, they could at least destroy the facility and force the Confederacy to move the control elsewhere.

    Regardless, the point is still that the clones cannot be deactivated by the push of a button; droids can.
  10. PineappleJoe Well-Known Member

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    Uhm not by the push of a button but if palpatine told them to stand down and get slaughtered they would.
  11. UnitRico Well-Known Member

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    Well, maybe their leader could come up with some sort of giant death machine that can instantly destroy a planet and they'd be unsto- Wait...well, fuck.

    Besides, the clones could be stopped by destroying Kamino and its facilities (did they have other planets? I can't remember), and then targeting the remaining clones.
  12. Imperial1917 City-States God of War

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    They don't need the Death Star. They can just bomb the planet from orbit. Which they did after the war. Members of the hallowed 501st attacked the factories, stole prototype battle droid designs, killled the leader of the facility, and planted a homing beacon for orbital bombardment.
    The droids DID try to destroy Kamino. You know how that turned out? They failed miserably and the clones continued to be produced.
    The droids even tried a bio-virus that specifically targeted Fett DNA. That failed too.
    That is a matter of discipline and training. It signifies unwavering obedience in their service. Hardly a flaw.
    And besides, you are trying (and failing) the equivilate that to the fact that the droids could be deactivated with a push of a button.
    The difference is that the button can be pushed by anyone whereas only Palpatine had the influence to get clones to back down.
  13. PineappleJoe Well-Known Member

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    No, not just anyone could deactivate the droids. You would need the leaders of the CIS "keys". Conveniently for Aniken Palpatien got them all to come to get her for a meeting. Even if the clones could have "just bombed mustafar from orbit" by somehow getting an army into the center of separatist controlled space. They would not have been able to capture mustafar because of logistical issues. And even if they did they could not deactivate the drones because they didn't have the "keys".
  14. Imperial1917 City-States God of War

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    What looked to be every major player of the CIS was at Mustafar. I'm sure that the "keys" were present and accounted for. Even if they weren't there, the "keys" had to be for several reasons including the fact that it was a facility to manufacture droids.
    As for making it into Separatist controlled space - well, a hyperdrive can work wonders if you know where you are going. Add to that the fact that the film showed no indications that there was anything more than a small task force of droids guarding the facility and it doesn't appear as difficult as you say it would be. You probably wouldn't need an army to get in with that poor security.
    Capture isn't necessary. The only real objective is getting to the command console with the proper access codes.

    Even if they couldn't get the "keys", the clones could probably just hack the computers. Its been done before and with marvelous effects. For the clones, that is.

    Regardless of the logistics of the actual war, the point still stands that the droids could be deactivated by anyone with a button, the "keys", and a decent broadcasting array. Clones cannot.
  15. PineappleJoe Well-Known Member

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    Did you just disregard everything i posted? Palpetine arranged for that to happen.

    Yes but Hyperspace travel still takes time, The arriving fleet of the republic would have been crushed since CIS reinforcements were closer.
    The problem with your logic here is that it's a droid production facility. The millions of these that turned out billions of droids each. Now of course clone troopers are superior to the most common droids like the B1 and B2 battle droids. But each of these factories produced more droids than the clone army all together (the clone army was numbered at 3 million which i think is bullshit but it clearly states so in episode 2 with another 3 million or so coming out each year which is still to low to make sense if you ask me but whatever). Also the logistics of fighting on a volcanic planet made invasion almost Impossible. Now you do mention a small strike team which could work but mustfar is a big planet with many factories.

    Very true, which is a downside to using drones. But if you look at the numbers and resources of CIS it is clear that they were superior.
  16. UnitRico Well-Known Member

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    The thing is, though, that in the end, Palpatine chose the clones over the droids, even though those could be churned out at a much higher pace, and the facilities could be decentralised to prevent "easy shutdowns". Which is weird, until you look at the order in which the movies were made.
  17. Imperial1917 City-States God of War

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    And I stated that the "keys" would probably still be there regardless. Failing that, the clones could hack the command console.
    Matter of time and strategy.
    Yes, hyperspace travel takes time. However, it depends on what you are sending.
    The evidence given suggests that there were no more than a handful of combat droids on station.
    You don't have to send an army. A small, elite strikeforce could do the job. That means a small ship that could go unnoticed until it strikes.
    The attack itself wouldn't take too long either. You get in, destroy the guards, access the terminal, and shut down the droids.
    There is no evidence of that. The given evidence shows that the factory had only a small, insignificant security force and some production lines which were capible of producing an army, but weren't. Even when they were, years later, the 501st strike force was able to overwhelm them.
    Which is plain wrong. The 501st did it. They destroyed the factories with just one strike.
    Even if it is a big planet, the controls for the factories were centrally located, conveniently where biological beings are more comfortable: on the surface, near to a landing pad.
    Anakin's passage through the facility from the landing pad to the control room looks to have taken (speaking generously) maybe 10-20 mins, top.
  18. PineappleJoe Well-Known Member

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    I'm not gonna answer any of your other Ill thought out arguments as i have been over most of them
    This was a pretty good argument though. Yes the 501st did destroy the facility post clone wars. The reason they were able to do this was that all CIS units where deactivated in the clone wars by aniken. So when the 501st where sent to destroy the newly re-opened factory the defending forces on the ground lacked reinforcements in the form off capital ships. so they were decimated from space by star destroyers.
  19. Imperial1917 City-States God of War

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    Yet they did have some orbital support. It just got blown up by the 501st.
    No, they didn't have reinforcements, but neither would they if the CWs was still on, due to communication problems and transportation.
    Most likely, the strike force would have a jamming device to prevent the droids from calling for help.
    Even if the droids did manage to get off a distress beacon, it would still take at least an hour (probably more) for reinforcements from the nearest Seperatist-held systems to arrive.
    Beyond that, the re-activated and fresh-off-the-assembly-line droids numbered greater than the droids that were defending the facility during the war.

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