Does someone Owning a Confederate Flag make them a Racist?

Does someone Owning a Confederate Flag make them a Racis

They were paid with the things they made. :roll:

They relied on taking the pharaoh's word, as god, and listened to every command.

Does someone Owning a Confederate Flag make them a Racis

http://sunsite.utk.edu/civil-war/reasons.html

yes, next time you use a intentionally doctored sources make sure I can’s refute it with the first Google search I get. And when sighting something it is always good to use a .gov .org. or a .edu and you should always double check you .com references. A cute attempt of a counter argument though and let me know if you want me to site an y of the other states I’m sure it will only take five minutes. I mean they were all one paragraph think a little my boy.

Does someone Owning a Confederate Flag make them a Racis

I have a Confederate flag in my room and I'm Australian. My grandfather (also Australian - whatever that means anyway) possessed it for some unknown reason, and I kinda liked it (kinda like flags in general).

Racist no, own flag, yes

Does someone Owning a Confederate Flag make them a Racis

I’m not saying you doctored them but they were all abridged to the point that they were void of all meaning. If you take the time to read the entire declaration you will see a reference to slavery in there.

http://www.mdcbowen.org/p2/rm/debunk/secession.htm

Does someone Owning a Confederate Flag make them a Racis

Sorry i was so condecending I had a really bad day and just wanted to blow steam off. Also you are right the war was about states rights: the right to own slaves.

Does someone Owning a Confederate Flag make them a Racis

Wow I am surprised on how most of the first few pages of this discussion was about confederate flags and how they make some one a racist, or a idiot, or some one who cares deeply about slavery. Some times I wounder who is more foolish the poster or the person who reply's to the post. lol (Yes i am including my self in that paradox lol.) But since our friend from up north wants to know about the flags of the confederates lets tell him about them.
--------------------------
Lets take a look there where 4 national confederate flags all together this included the following:

Bonnie Blue Flag: The first flag that stood for the southern entity and can be traced back to early 1800's
It was used as the first unofficial flag for the confederacy in 1861 until one was adopted.


The Stars and Bars of 1861-1863: Was to become the first National confederate flag. It how ever
is not the stars and bars "Rebel flag" that comes to most peoples minds of today.

This first national flag would be replaced latter on the battle field from the result of a battle at Manasses where southern generals (from confusion of fighting) could not tell there troops from northern troops on the field. (How ever we will get to rest of that latter.)

The Stainless Banner of 1863-1865: Replaced the first National Confederate flag for the confederacy
all together. It would be come the second national flag of the confederacy.


The Blood-stained Banner of 1865-present: Replaced the 2nd national flag becoming the 3rd
national flag in 1865. This was a result from the end of one particular battle where the 2nd
national flag was being displayed was thought to be a flag of truce. This third national flag Beard
a similar design as the second national flag. To fix this issue the field of the flag wore a red strip to keep the flag from being viewed as a flag of truce.


Finally last but not least the unofficially named "Stars and Bars" or the modernly known "Rebel Flag".
This when first used was known as the "Battle Flag" and became the official flag of the
Southern Eastern Theater Army from Northern Virgina.

Remember how I said there was confusion at the battle of 1st Manasses between who was where, and who was who on the battle field? Well this because the Union Flag and the 1st official Confederate looked so similar that confederate generals thought they where loosing the battle till the dust and smoke cleared enough to see it was actually there flag still flying with there troops, which they had mistook earlier for the Union Flag. It decide that a new flag was need it and a new design was order and It seen it's first commission under General Beauregard.

This "Battle Flag was used till 1865 but still is a modern day symbol. Modern day use of the battle flag can be found any where from tee shirt logos with sangs like "The South Will Rise Again" or by modern Biker groups along with such sangs as "Rebel with out a cause".

Racism and slavery and the use of the "Battle Flag" It is unknown though many theories are poised about how the battle flag of the south became a symbol for racism and slavery. The first leader of clan like group was General Forest who like other southerns could not except the war was over and took his carvery group around on Horse back to keep the "Yankee's out of the south". Forest group never adopted any flag much less the "Battle Flag" and there are no real substantiated accounts of Forest directing any attacks on Southern Africans at the time.

Sources:

The Flags of the Confederacy
http://www.civilwarhome.com/confederateflags.htm
The Georgia Heritage Coalition
http://www.scv674.org/csaflags.htm
Wikki Flags of the Confederate States of America
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flags_of_the_Confederate_States_of_America
Texas Division, Sons of Confederate Veterans
http://txscv.tripod.com/csa.htm
And various books from the Thompson learning center

Does someone Owning a Confederate Flag make them a Racis

To add to my flag posting and defining racism and confederate flags I want people to bare in mine.

1. During the civil war not one slave was brought to The "Confederated States of America" from Africa During the time of civil war.
2. Contrary to popular belief few African slaves did fight for the south in the civil war. Along with Native American division who at the time held a lower social statues the Africans in the United states.
3.Very few southerns at the time owned slaves. Most slaves of the south where owned by southern Aristocracy.

During this time up and a few years prior.

1. The capital building and lot of northern government buildings where constructed for the union by slaves.
2. A statue that was representing freedom for all was eradicated around the start of the civil war and built by a African American slave.
3. Lincoln was quoted by stating towards the end of the war by political aids and dignitaries that he Fought the war solely to preserve the union. He said he did not care if his actions free all slaves or none as long as the union remained, He was quoted by saying he did not care if one slave was free and rest where not as long as the union remained.
4. Lincoln along with most northern abolitionist supported the colonization project where once slaves where free they would be immediately relocated back to a colony in Africa. Lincoln was quoted At a meeting about the project, Lincoln told the five delegates "you and we are different races" and it was "better for us both . . . to be separated."
5. During Lincolns tremendous struggles during the war him and his war council decide not only would it help the northern abolitionist movement but it would help the war effort if slaves where free publicly by the union. The hopes that they would rise up and cause partisan division in the south once they learned of the news. But no rebellion even after the news passed through the south ever happened.
6. The only flag that ever was flown on slave ships that represented either nation in this land would had been The Union Flag, because once again no slave was brought from Africa to the CSR under a confederate flag.

It really saddens me to see even have to discuss this. I understand completely how ideology of the battle flag representing racism took place. But at the same time from the points I made here plus defining out the flags to one, you should truly see when most southerns fly a "confederate flag of any sorts" It is out of respect for men who died. You must remember brothers fought each other during this war, families where torn apart, 10,000 of thousands of people perished and suffered do to Northern and Southern aristocracy hashing out there power in politics against one and the other.


This part here completely opinionated but is what was happening so more likely would had:
Who won in the end is probably a matter of indifference. Slavery at the time was being shut down by most world powers and England even had dignitaries at the time working with the south and where putting pressure on them to end slavery. So take note in the end not every is at it seems. May we all honor The people who dies in result of such blood shed.


Sources:

Texas Division, Sons of Confederate Veterans (Prof of the Native Americans fighting in the war)
http://txscv.tripod.com/csa.htm
American Experience Robert E. Lee (PBS Documentary on lee showing course of the war and events)
http://video.pbs.org/video/1715799607
Ken Burns The civil war (PBS Documentary series That shows what happen and quotes used in this article by Lincoln. http://video.pbs.org/program/1516591560/
THOUGHTS ON AFRICAN COLONIZATION by: William Lloyd Garrison (about Lincoln quotes and colonization)
http://www.gutenberg.org/files/31178/31178-h/31178-h.htm
The African American Delegation to Abraham Lincoln: A Reappraisal (about Lincoln quotes and colonization)
http://muse.jhu.edu/journals/cwh/summary/v056/56.2.masur.html
And all other information accredited to various text books from the Thompson Learning.

Does someone Owning a Confederate Flag make them a Racis

Does some one owning a gun mean there a serial killer?

Does someone Owning a Confederate Flag make them a Racis

They may not mean to be, but the Confederate flag really is the official symbol of racism here in America. It's the flag of traitors and slavers. Fuck that flag and the people who fly it.

Does someone Owning a Confederate Flag make them a Racis

No, because where i live, every fifth person does it. It means that we're Southern. Being a Tennessean makes us a Southerner. Its only racist if the person using it is trying to be racist.

Does someone Owning a Confederate Flag make them a Racis

Location and intent doesn't change anything. It's still a symbol of treason over the desire to keep human beings as slaves. "Southern Pride" or not, no reasonable person should fly that flag.

Does someone Owning a Confederate Flag make them a Racis

But I think that intent does matter though.

Your example about that flag being one of treason can be equated with someone having the sate flag fly behind them. Does that make that person against the Country in a rebellious act of state independence?


No, it doesn't.

Does someone Owning a Confederate Flag make them a Racis

That's equivalent to Randall trying to take back "porch monkey" in Clerks 2. You can't just ignore the symbolism and history behind that flag, trying to redefine it so you have an excuse to fly it.

Does someone Owning a Confederate Flag make them a Racis

Well first get your facts right, OK?

1. I don't fly that flag around
and
2. I'm not racist

I would say that one of the reasons that people DO fly it, is because of the deaths the South lost in the war. Yes, I know whose fault the war was, and Yes, I know that it was a Confederate flag.

But... You don't seem to understand why this flag was even made. It wasn't just because they thought slavery was good. It was because the South wasn't represented proportionally with the North. The North was going to abolish slavery, correct? That would have destroyed the economy of the South. But since they weren't really represented, how would they have been able to try and save their way of life?

Does someone Owning a Confederate Flag make them a Racis

A) It didn't destroy their economy B) How were they not represented?

Does someone Owning a Confederate Flag make them a Racis

They weren't represented fairly since the representation was determined by population. And since the Northern states was more of a business economy, that brought more population towards the bigger cities. That population grew since it was coming from mostly Southern states. A smaller population meant less power over the government.

Secondly, the bulk of the southern population WAS slaves. If they were freed, there wouldn't have been enough people working to support the economy, since it was based on agriculture.