Why the 'fair or free' dichotomy sucks

Discussion in 'The Political/Current Events Coffee House' started by Kali, Apr 14, 2012.

?

As an aside; which type of trade policy do you support?

Free 6 vote(s) 19.4%
Fair 7 vote(s) 22.6%
Protectionist 6 vote(s) 19.4%
I'm a disgusting, hammer-and-sickle-wielding, dirt-farm-convention-attending red 12 vote(s) 38.7%
  1. Kali The World's Best Communist

    Member Since:
    Mar 13, 2012
    Message Count:
    1,168
    Likes Received:
    1,065
    Trophy Points:
    113
    More specifically, why the 'fair trade or free trade' dichotomy sucks.

    From the perspective of an individual, it's hard to say what the best kind of trade policy is, since each one guarantees wildly different selections of products and prices. From the perspective of business, it's similarly difficult to pinpoint what the most advantageous system is.

    But from the perspective of a nation, the answer to the 'free vs. fair' question is one that is both crystal clear and yet goes entirely unnoticed. Since the success of a nation's economy affects so many other factors, including diplomacy, and especially security, it's always in the best interests of a state to pursue unfair, but equally unfree, trade policy.

    The constructivists, feminists, Marxists, and liberals have somehow managed to put a vice grip on the dialogue surrounding trade policy in the West. This false dichotomy of 'liberty or equality' implies that states should work for the betterment of the entire world. It's positively ludicrous from the realist (and of course I mean that in both the literal and doctrinal senses) point of view that your state should sacrifice a concrete advantage for the sake of the 'global community'. Why, when almost every other aspect of IR dialogue accepts the realist position as prima facie true, do we suddenly get all sentimental about trade?

    The answer is, luckily, that we don't. Or rather, states don't. Because states behave according to the realist model.

    People, on the other hand, are entirely different. Instead of accepting that the inherent nature of geopolitics is anarchic, our generation has been led to believe that there is some sort of underlying order and goodness in the international system, and that large groups of people will act against their collective self-interest for the sake of others. This fantasy is dangerous and irrational, but it completely, totally, shapes trade policy discussion.

    At the end of the day, we're going to see predictable results and behaviors at the state level. The paradigm isn't shifting, no matter how much people want to champion globalization.

    However, at the individual level, it's important to remember that somewhere out there, a dirty red is cackling in his communal grave every time you embrace his disgusting, inhuman dichotomy.
    The Shaw likes this.
  2. Lenin Cat Well-Known Member

    Member Since:
    Feb 14, 2011
    Message Count:
    2,591
    Likes Received:
    88
    Trophy Points:
    108
    Location:
    New York
    I only support fair trade cuz it helps workers cooperatives.
  3. 0bserver92 Grand King of Moderation

    Member Since:
    Feb 13, 2011
    Message Count:
    6,746
    Likes Received:
    331
    Trophy Points:
    143
    Location:
    Canada
    Fair trade along with some protectionism.
  4. Kali The World's Best Communist

    Member Since:
    Mar 13, 2012
    Message Count:
    1,168
    Likes Received:
    1,065
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Good to see such intellectual discussion... The poll was, as indicated, added as an aside. The central focus of the topic is about the failure of regular people (and intellectuals, for that matter) to accept realism as a working model to explain international trade, even though it's entirely observed and obvious.

    EDIT: Wow, absolutely no one for free trade yet. I also find it hard to believe that we've got this many horrible reds.
  5. Yarpen Well-Known Member

    Member Since:
    Feb 16, 2011
    Message Count:
    1,541
    Likes Received:
    744
    Trophy Points:
    163
    Location:
    Bs. As.,Argentina
    I support proteccionism (at some extent), but that's the case of my country. I don't think a fully developed country as USA needs it.
  6. Redbullk1d NKVD Channel Maintainer

    Member Since:
    Mar 15, 2011
    Message Count:
    188
    Likes Received:
    25
    Trophy Points:
    78
    Location:
    England
    I do like free trade as I think that workers should not be exploited, however I do think that it gives too little of the profit to them, I mean we wouldn't think we had a much better job if you got like 59p extra a day. Really it is a gimmic so that uppety liberal types can feel better exploiting poor people.
  7. DukeofAwesome Well-Known Member

    Member Since:
    Feb 13, 2011
    Message Count:
    1,272
    Likes Received:
    274
    Trophy Points:
    114
    Location:
    New Jersey USA
    Free trade because the market works best when it isn't being fucked with.
  8. Demondaze Xenos Scum

    Member Since:
    Feb 14, 2011
    Message Count:
    5,456
    Likes Received:
    925
    Trophy Points:
    183
    Location:
    TEXASLOL
    Trade blocs FTW! NAFTA! NAFTA! NAFTA!
  9. The Shaw Rawnald Gregory Erickson the Second

    Member Since:
    Jul 25, 2011
    Message Count:
    5,426
    Likes Received:
    1,033
    Trophy Points:
    243
    Location:
    New York
    I'm bringing this topic back to life.
    Ideally, free trade. But protectionism is the only realistic policy.
  10. Warburg Well-Known Member

    Member Since:
    Feb 17, 2011
    Message Count:
    834
    Likes Received:
    258
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    United Federal Kingdoms of Scandinavia
    I find the treatment of 3rd world farmers and workers unfair and wrong, and fair trade is a way for me to help the farmers who plant, tend to and harvest the crop. The farmers should have a larger share of the profits(they are minescule at the moment) and I can do this by buying fair trade.(which I'm still somewhat hesistant to trust)
  11. LampRevolt Well-Known Member

    Member Since:
    Jun 5, 2011
    Message Count:
    2,108
    Likes Received:
    516
    Trophy Points:
    183
    Whatever works best at the time. Seriously. I have no moral attachments to any of them we should adjust our fiscal plans to suit our needs.
  12. DukeofAwesome Well-Known Member

    Member Since:
    Feb 13, 2011
    Message Count:
    1,272
    Likes Received:
    274
    Trophy Points:
    114
    Location:
    New Jersey USA
    Why do you support protectionism?
  13. The Shaw Rawnald Gregory Erickson the Second

    Member Since:
    Jul 25, 2011
    Message Count:
    5,426
    Likes Received:
    1,033
    Trophy Points:
    243
    Location:
    New York
    Because I am a realist.
  14. 0bserver92 Grand King of Moderation

    Member Since:
    Feb 13, 2011
    Message Count:
    6,746
    Likes Received:
    331
    Trophy Points:
    143
    Location:
    Canada
    You need to protect your own industries and your people.
  15. Shisno Doesn't know who did this

    Member Since:
    Feb 27, 2012
    Message Count:
    2,641
    Likes Received:
    739
    Trophy Points:
    139
    Location:
    NKVD Underground
    Just for the record, I am:
    a disgusting, hammer-and-sickle-wielding, dirt-farm-convention-attending red. AND PROUD TO BE ONE!
    Chelsea366 likes this.
  16. Vulcan200x Well-Known Member

    Member Since:
    Mar 25, 2011
    Message Count:
    1,540
    Likes Received:
    171
    Trophy Points:
    94
    Location:
    Unknown
    COMMIES YOU CAN NEVER TRUST ONE THAT WHAT MY FATHER SAID UNTIL HE TOOK AN ARROW TO A KNEE :D
  17. Chelsea366 Retired Moderator

    Member Since:
    Feb 13, 2011
    Message Count:
    6,865
    Likes Received:
    1,923
    Trophy Points:
    183
    Location:
    Gensokyo
    So you're implying that he used to distrust commies but then stopped. Don't think that meme works there as you intended.
  18. Vulcan200x Well-Known Member

    Member Since:
    Mar 25, 2011
    Message Count:
    1,540
    Likes Received:
    171
    Trophy Points:
    94
    Location:
    Unknown
    He still does..I was just trolling... seriously he does not just trust a Communist, want to hear a another life story or your good?
  19. Chelsea366 Retired Moderator

    Member Since:
    Feb 13, 2011
    Message Count:
    6,865
    Likes Received:
    1,923
    Trophy Points:
    183
    Location:
    Gensokyo
    Just saying you misunderstood the meme. I used to be so and so (or do so and so or think so and so) but then I took an arrow to the knee. It implies that you had to stop.
  20. Vulcan200x Well-Known Member

    Member Since:
    Mar 25, 2011
    Message Count:
    1,540
    Likes Received:
    171
    Trophy Points:
    94
    Location:
    Unknown
    .....I never understand these Arrow to the Knee Jokes..there not funny :/

Share This Page

Facebook: