Again, this makes god an asshole. if it does not matter if you are a good person, then god is an evil asshole.
Actually the bible contradicts itself on this note I believe. Showing that once again the all knowing and all powerful god who does infact know all events future past and present somehow managed to change his mind inbetween testaments. Also people who are making statements about who wrote the bible, since various christian groups all claim different things on this subject you are all equally invalid. None of you have a single rational argument for why your way is more viable then the others you just daydream them up. How many times does he have to imply that the logic there is ridiculous and barbaric. I mean do you savages think on your own at all?
I forget exactly the wording of this story by here goes: A missionary was traveling north to bring Christianity to the Inuit peoples of northern Canada. When he arrived he explained to the natives about god and heaven and hell. An Inuit man asked "If I didn't know about all this would I still go to hell?" The missionary thought about this for a second and replied "No I don't think so." The Inuit man then said "So why did you tell me?" I felt that was relevant.
That's almost punny. If you actually totally missed the meaning their by some chance and are not trolling though, I pity you.
Yes, I got the meaning. On the other hand the picture of the missionary with a troll face in my head was hilarious.
So I am gunna take my stick here and poke this big old hornets’ nest. As many of you know I am not religious in the slightest and I think that if you study the history of Christianity you will come to realize many things, but foremost that there is no fundamental truth to the religion. Christianity only caught on with people in the first place because it explained what happened when you died, were as the predominate Roman religions did a very poor job. And in that vein it said when you died everyone would be judged equally, basically saying to the plebs that those damn dirty elites will get their comeuppance when they die and if you have been a good person then you will be rewarded. So if you are a lower class Roman this sales pitch is pretty enticing. Also the current Roman Religions had not been modernized in a very long time and were falling out of touch with the current generation, so Christianity wasn’t catching on because there is some fundamental truth to the religion, but because it was able to capture the spirit of the times and then able to form that zeitgeist for 1000s of years after, until religious thinking finally fell out of favour during the enlightenment. Christianity was also not a historical inevitability; people forget that we could just as easily be arguing about the existence of Jupiter and Mars on this forum as we could be arguing about the existence of “God”. In any case the Roman Empire could have fell which would have numerous historical consequences including consequences for Christianity. Or Constantine loses the battle of The Milvian Bridge and Rome remains a pagan empire until its downfall. Or the early Christians had a debate as to whether or not Christianity should be an inclusive religion or an exclusive religion, and if the people opting for the exclusive point of view won that debate, then Christianity becomes far less of a factor as it turned out to be. What does all this mean? It means that Christianity could have died out just as easily as any other countless religions before it, and Heaven would be an awfully lonely place for God if we were still making sacrifices to Jupiter. So if God was all powerful then he would have insured that Christianity became the dominate religion, but as we all know there is no such thing as a historical inevitability so it was not inevitable that Christianity becomes the dominate religion meaning if such is the case there is no fundamental truth to the religion.
That's essentially one of the main reasons I don't believe in any religions, I've just never been able to articulate it in any debate.
I used to be very religious, knew the bible front to back, back to front. My favorite books in the bible were Genesis and Revelations; basically The Beginning and The End. But I had a really fucked up life, and through all my prayers and beliefs in a just, loving god; nothing changed, and nothing got better. And at the young age of 12, I lost my faith in god, and it never returned, but as I got older I went from a adamant Atheist and upon seeing all of my children born and holding them as they slept, and found myself praying to something; anything, for their safety, especially with high fevers. I realized I had become an Agnostic. And I also realized that I had hated God for a long time, but in order to hate God you have to believe in a God in the first place, so I had believed that there was a God all along, and I also came to the conclusion that as I got older, to late high school years, and had started to get over the events in my life, and yet was still an atheist that I didn't hate god, and to quote Marilyn Manson, "I never really hated the one true God, but the God of the people I hated." All the people that pushed god into my face, and told me that I was going to hell, made me want to piss them off, and take apart their religion, and make them doubt their religion, and that was wrong of me. Just as they had no right to push their religion on me, and tell me I was going to hell, it wasn't their right to judge me, according to most religions only one has the right to judge you and that is God, yet most people want to play that role, or at least occupy the role for a short bursts. Just as many Atheist, love to take on the persona of Satan. To quote Charles Baudelaire, “The greatest trick the devil ever played was convincing the world that he did not exist.”-Charles Baudelaire. Atheist love to tell Christians especially that their God does not exist, there is no way their bible is in anyway correct. So people on both sides are wrong, not all Atheists are evil/uncaring people, and all of the great people in history were religious, and not all the wars in the world are not caused by religion and religious people are not all to blame for censorship and unfavorable laws. To make a long story short, I agree with you sir, and see no need for an apology because you grew and learned as a person, and recognized where you were "wrong."
I like how Stalin said on Facebook "Heaven would be an awfully lonely place for God if we were still making sacrifices to Jupiter.". We inspire him guys
I That is a really long explanation for what should be obvious . If the Christians here were thinking that the fact that it was popular is actually an argument though I guess this would be an appropriate response. Good point Stalin. First on an unrelated point it's real pain in the ass to read your posts could you like. Idk. Break it into paragraphs or something? Shit's harder to read then the dictionary. Now on to your post. You seem to think that because you wanted something to help your kids and did the only thing you could do by having a psychotic lapse and rambling to an imaginary figure that this somehow proves the existence of god. If you do mean christian god then your just being irrational and if you mean just an unknown deity or all powerful creator then okay I never debate that they could exist but it's also irrational to claim you are absolutely certain of its existence. Desperate people are such victims. That persona of Satan thing was a crazy generalization. I just think there's something wrong with the world where something like 90% of the world now mumbles to imaginary figures to try to alleviate the stress and responsibility that IS yours in life. "not all Atheists are evil/uncaring people, " The way you say this suggests that this statement somehow doesn't apply to Christians. "and all of the great people in history were religious" What the fuck are you rambling about now? Oh and in the west yes religious people are pretty much 100% to blame for censorship laws. I can prove this by comparing it to cultures that are largely unaffected by christian influence.
Ok, no where in my post did I say I believed in GOD, Christian, Jewish, Muslim, whatever form of God. I may have not made myself clear, let me clear that now, I do not believe in GOD/Yahweh/Allah/Zeus/Jupiter/Odin, I believe in the possibility of a higher power, seeing my children born made me realize that there could be a "God", you do not know all, you do not know if there is a god or not. As Christians can't be sure that there is a God, they only have faith. If you are referring to the statement in order to hate god you have to believe in God, that is 100% true, you can't hate something that you don't believe in, it's like hating Santa Claus, if you hate him you gotta believe in him. And don't ever call desperate people victims, I did not say I was desperate, I was worried, but not desperate, have children and one day you will find yourself worrying and hoping and yes PRAYING maybe not to God, call it wishful thinking instead if you wish, that they will not come to any harm, or if they are sick that they will get better. As for the Satan Generalization what are you talking about? I was comparing Christians Judging others like they are god, and Atheist trying to shake people's faith and beliefs like Satan would in the Bible. I've never met an Atheist myself included that did not try to disprove the existence of God to a Christian when they got into an argument about religion. The "not all Atheists are evil/uncaring people, and all of the great people in history were religious, and not all the wars in the world are not caused by religion and religious people are not all to blame for censorship and unfavorable laws." These are the most popular arguments I've ever heard between the religious and anti-religious. If you would have read it correct you would have gotten it, maybe it was cause the lines were so close for your computer screen damaged eyes. And NOT ALL Religious people are to blame for censorship laws, and not all wars in the world's history are caused by religion, many have been caused by Greed, and other factors. is this better for your eyes?
What would you define desperate as then? You reached out to something that you didn't even know existed because you could do nothing else. If that's not desperate I don't know what is. It's nothing to be ashamed of. Everyone has wishful thinking , but you specifically said you were trying to pray to something. MY point is that I do not know all and cannot say if there is a god or not. We're both agnostic. The point is that since we cannot know is actually an argument for OUR side not the religious people. That no one can truly know is certainly no argument for a person who worships a singular religion and that was my point. Your line about the popular arguments is irrelevant because you yourself were saying it with YOUR words . You accepted slanted arguments and worked with them which hides truth in and of itself . If we treat both groups as if they had different fundamental characteristics we're on the wrong track. I never stated that ALL wars are caused by religion. But essentially all censorship regarding sexuality at least is a religious thing and that you can't even argue. There is no other reason for us to be such close minded prudes but the influence of Christianity. Oh shake people's faith. Yeah I'm Satan then. Although I do this mostly for fun I don't expect idiots to grow more brain cells any time soon. BUT YES this was far easier to compartmentalize and respond to. You'll find that people might actually take time to read your posts if they don't look like the giant wall of the great run on sentence.
You are getting it all wrong, I wasn't making an argument for either side, I was trying to be neutral. If you want to be your way of Agnostic, I'll be my way of Agnostic, and let it be that. You can not blame all religious people for censorship and laws that are unfair, I know Gay Christians, Jews, and Muslims, I know religious people that go to church every Sunday, and still listen to Howard Stern and stuff that others religious people like the FCC try to censor and shut down, so YOU CAN NOT BLAME ALL RELIGIOUS PEOPLE FOR CENSORSHIP.
I dont think hes trying to blame all religous people for censorship as much as saying christianity is responsible for a lot of censorship, I dont necessarily agree, but you could make the argument that before christianity came around, stuff like being naked in public was not frowned upon nearly as much as it was in post christianity era.
If they don't follow their own rules then they are just pack animals and the religion is a label. Also yes I fucking can because the monotheistic religions introduced the notion that sexuality was sinful and thus led to everyone suppressing their own sexuality ESPECIALLY the straight people . Hollywood wouldn't portray a husband and wife to sleep in the same damn bed in the 50's and you think it was just because that's how people felt? Wrong. Before all this nonsense people were openly homosexual didn't shy away from talking about sex whenever they felt like it because it as NATURAL AND NOTHING TO BE ASHAMED OF.
