My Views on Marijuana

Never trust a hippy, they sell you bad drugs.

If I was a hippie I would sell good drugs. As a matter of fact, I would probably rely on drug dealing for all my money. You now, like most hippies, except I'd be cool about it.

What? No organic vegetable garden?

As fun as that sounds I don't think I'd be able to fit it in the van.

I just like the article, and think that it gives a different perspective on the whole debate.

Its amazing how you can type so much only to end it with an insult and
1) completely distort and take attention away from your point
2) fail to actually make a point.

All you have done thus far is attack my position without pointing out how marijuana legalization is good for the society more than it is bad. You can bang on about the individual all you want, but at the end of the day, how the society at large is affected determines the outcome. You have thus far failed to ligitimize your claim. Pointing out flaws in the system as it is is an adrimable action, but not grounds to legalize something that is a negative. Basically, a negative in the society is not a reason to admit another. There is no reason to 'add fuel to the fire' as Americans say.

You have pointed out flaws in the society, now point out how marijuana can be in any way a good thing.

You have to have a reason to make something illegal before you make it illegal, not the other way around. Again, as I said, millions of times now...

What people do with their own bodies is NONE of your BUSINESS and you have no fucking right to tell them what they can or cannot do to it. Whether it is a positive or negative effect for society is totally subjective, as is the use of video games and oh I don't know paint brushes. I mean art can express controversial ideas and can potentially lead to civil unrest, therefore is a negative to society (if you think civil unrest is negative to society). Let's just ban the world because someone might not like it.

The positive which it represents to society is the freedom to do what the fuck they want with themselves and not have a constant stream of convicts we have to put away for doing so. In Canada 80% of the drug budget goes towards bothering pot smokers and it a total god damn waste of time and resources. It costs us money , manpower, and our freedom to have it illegal.

My turn.

It seems as though you and I(as well as Lampy for that matter) see this in two completely different ways. While we focuse on the personal freedoms of the individual, because we have lives and do things, you seem to be focusing about what is best for the society as a whole, reflecting your personal opinions, because you are an idealist with little to no real world experiences.

That just isn't true. The individual is the most important part of the society. And of course I say that because I am an individual. I place my own freedom, happiness, and life above that of the society because I do things with them. Individuality is one of the most important things about being human, and is one of the major things separating humans from animals, everybody is different, and everybody holds different values about what is isn't right for themselves and others. And because of this, I believe that people should be able to make their onw decisions for themselves, but not for others. Relating this back to marijuana specifically, unless using marijuana suddenly starts directly and negatively affecting the well-being of others, then there is no just reason for it's continued legalization.

I'm assuming you're referring to the argument that, "as long as 'negatives' such as alcohol, tobacco, and.... obesity, are legal, then marijuana ought to be as well". But I fail to see how Marijuana is a negative to society. And nobody can tell someone not to do something negative to just themselves and expect anybody to listen.

You are an American. You always have been. You have always attempted to lead people to believe that you are not, that perhaps you are from the China that you admire so. Maybe not by directly saying it, but by simply not mentioning you're origins, and speaking from a neutral, almost third-person point of view. Perhaps you are ashamed of your nationality. But I know for a fact that you are an American, and your attempts to cover it up are, and have been, pathetic.

Things should not be assumed illegal. Unless you can point out a legitimate reason for criminalization then there need be none for legality.

As we (as in you and I) American's say, ball's in your court, nigga.

That sentence makes absolutely no sense.

On the contrary, it very much does have meaning.
While no, we cannot completely condone interfereing in people's individual lives, we CAN condone interfering when the general welfare is at stake.
Many things are subjective, yes. The court is overlooked by a subjective judge who presides over a case in which a prosecutor posecutes a person who they subjectively believe is guity who is in turn defended by an attorney who subjectively believes that the person is innocent who's fate is ultimately determined by a subjectively chosen jury who is itself subjective in its opinion of guilt or innocence.
However, that marijuana will have a negative affect on the society at large is entirely possible, even probable. The facts show that use of the drug can have negative affects whose reach is far and wide and can be felt for many years. It is not a question of philisophical application, but more of real mechanics. An individual who is too busy being stoned and neglecting his duties and obligations is not a socially accepted thing in any society.
That art is used in such a way is a particular and not necessarily a negative. Art is primarily used to convey an idea. Whether that idea is completely in line or controversial is subjective. In Western society, the ability to think critically and present controversial, even revolutionary, ideas is a highly valued talent. While it may lead to civil unrest and war, it is seen as more beneficial to the society that individuals are able to express these ideas and have the society incorperate them than to suppress them.
As for your last comment: remember that democracies are based on the majority ruling.

At this point I believe that you either
1) don't actually have a good, solid reason that it should be legalized that would benefit the whole of society
2) are only debating a philisophical point.

I still must point out that you have yet to say why it is beneficial on a practical level to legalize marijuana. From what I have seen, it would be much more in the interest of the society to keep it illegal.
While some may benefit from it on an individual basis, whether merely philisophically or other, the society at large would suffer from legalization.

1) If I am as I choose to be, then I am not by any means an American. For that matter, you have no proof beyond your own hunch. I chose anomity for the many reasons, amoung them that I had no wish to be judged by where I live as people such as yourself show so much tendency to.
2) Yes, the individual is important, but that does not mean that one person's wish or the wishes of a minority should held over the majority. The West is built on the idea of Democracy, which means that the majority rule.
3) On the contrary, it is you who is clearly without any experience. What benefits the majority is what rules in a Democracy. Or is meant to in any case. The legalization of marijuana is largely a negative, particularly for its social impact. For that reason, it is illegal. Even though the original illegalization grounds were somewhat faulty, the fact remains that the legislatures chose to illegalize it for the reason that it was percieved as a threat to the majority.
4) You can do as you wish to yourself for all the society at large cares, but when it bothers them, they act.

Oh oh let me guess, The Shaw is defending marijuana correct?

We're both making the same points jackass just in different wording. He's being far more gentle with this sheltered authoritarian guy then I am.

1. Philosophical points are more then valid. I'd say understanding the universe around you has a pretty practical effect.

2. That point I made is more then valid. Why would we assume everything illegal until it demonstrates a direct benefit to all of society? I mean besides providing entertainment because entertainment is obviously not a benefit to the robot you are.

3. There is nothing to suggest that if we make it legal people we smoke it more. Infact the opposite is possible if we look at what happened in alcohol prohibition.

4. There is also nothing to suggest that productivity will be wounded by pot . All the pot smokers I know that are out of high school have full time jobs , places they live, cars. I am not seeing whatever you think would happen to society. My grandpa is almost 80 and in healthy condition, has smoked pot all his life and sold a farm worth 1.2 million dollars upon retirement.

5. It's worth noting that university pretty much swarms with pot smokers too, I'm not sure where your getting this whole lazy stoner thing from.

Yep.

I see the point you're trying to make to them. But like I told you earlier, marijuana is just a tiny vice. Comparable to say... gambling. Both the positives and negatives are irrelevant, because they are so small. While society may gain no benefit it also suffers no loss.

And the same arguments are being used over and over.

By both parties. You people ignore everything we say and regurgitate the same nonsense again and again.

It's also worth noting that Imperials only argument left is "well there's no benefits so therefore it should be illegal" which is a flimsy argument at best.

Leave the arguing to people who can comprehend arguments, okay little guy?

Well cocaine has no benefits so therefor it should be illegal, although marijuana does actually have some his his argument is invalid.

Making cocaine illegal would just make it outrageously profitable to smuggle into the country as the supply would not meet the demand and prices would skyrocket. The main problem with pot in Canada now is that it is sent to Mexico and traded (1 pound for 1 kilo of coke) the price difference is STAGGERING. For every kilo you get back up to Canada you get a net profit of 30,000$. By keeping hard drugs illegal you create a dangerous and very wealthy black market.

1) I didn't say that they weren't valid, just that they were not proof that something is beneficial or not. For that matter, I would have found some measure of respect in the notion that your point was philisophical.
2) I don't assume that marijuana is illegal: it is.
2a) I never said that entertainment was bad. My position was that activities taken at the expense of others are bad.
3) My point was not that people will smoke it more. My point was that it carried no benefit to speak of and will cause damage as it is.
4) Personal stories are powerful arguments, but not proof of a fact so large that you are trying to disprove. As it is, the majority of marijuana smokers are known more for their productivity or lack thereof. Smoking marijuana has largly been linked to neglecting social relationships and work in the long run. The former is actually more of a problem than the latter, as the latter can be replaced, but for an individual with dependents [children, for example] it can have negative consequences.
5) I do not assume that something that has not been proven benefical is illegal. I merely point out that it is.

Something that TheShaw and you both seem not to realize is that things are made illegal on the basis of their negative impact on society balenced against their benefit.
Marijuana has not been shown to be benefical and has been shown to have negative affects.
It holds no major traditional or religious purpose.

Edit: Can somebody please make a post? I need to clean-slate my arguments and I don't want to double post.

This one time I was sick, throwing up and stuff. I hadn't eaten all day because the very thought of food made me sick. So I did something crazy. I smoked a bowl. Of hash, of course. Insane, I know, but something near miraculous happened. Aside from getting ripped out of my mind. I felt better. And I ate, and I didn't starve, and my day was saved, everything was better. But then I came down. Not hard, mind you, this was some pretty good hash. But eventually, I wasn't as high as I had been before, and my stomache began to ache. And so I smoked again, and I ate again, and life was perfect.

There's a benefit for you Imperial. Marijuana cures stomach aches.

And please respond to my prior post.

Not trying to argue with you but if marijuana cures stomach aches then shouldn't it have gone away instead on coming back later?
It's basically the same thing as taking a Advil.