Formula 1 and WRC

Discussion in 'Sports & Hobbies' started by ironchin, Nov 29, 2011.

  1. ironchin Well-Known Member

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    Who here follows either? Feel free to post your thoughts if you don't.
  2. slydessertfox Total War Branch Head

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    I follow Formula 1.
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  3. ironchin Well-Known Member

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    Haha wow. 1 person. Awesome!
    Do you live anywhere near Austin, Texas? Which teams and drivers do you suppourt?
  4. UnitRico Well-Known Member

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    I follow Formula 1 a bit, my cousin is an expert, though.
  5. ironchin Well-Known Member

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    Then answer the questions!!
  6. UnitRico Well-Known Member

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    Well, I don't really support any team or driver, although Vettel is a damn good one.
  7. slydessertfox Total War Branch Head

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    My brother lives in Austin, but I live in New Jersey. I support Ferrari.
  8. ironchin Well-Known Member

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    Reason I asked is because F1 returns to the US for the first time in 5 years this November at Austin.
    I reckon all that talk about him being the next Schumacher is warranted, and not hype. However, I used to think that about Hamilton and Alonso before him, both drivers had showed incredible talent from a relatively young age. Hopefully this year Red Bull, McLaren and Ferrari have equally matched cars, and we'll see the three most talented drivers of this generation go hell for leather. I wouldn't count out Jensen Button (after an excellent 2011) or Mark Webber (after he came oh-so-close to winning the 2010 title, but had a bit of a form slump last year) either. Massa needs to step up his game, Ferrari are on the verge of dropping him. I'm also anxious to see what Raikkonen can do upon return. It has got to be the first time there have been six world champions on the grid this season, and every champion from the past 12 years. Egos will clash.
  9. UnitRico Well-Known Member

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    The thing with Button's championship is that he clearly had the superior car for almost the entire season, giving him the lead. When the other teams caught up, he barely won another race. Vettel remained dominant the entire season.
    Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying Button is a bad driver, but I do think you can credit a lot of his victories in his winning seasons to his car.

    As for next season, if I'm rooting for anyone it'll be Kobyashi. He's shown a lot of talent last year, and I wonder how he'll do this season.

    Massa indeed performed below his average level last season, and so did Raikkonen, for that matter. All I heard from him is that he kept crashing into trees in the rally competitions.

    And now that I think about it, how's Kubica doing? Was he going to return this year yet, or will he have to sit this season out as well?
  10. ironchin Well-Known Member

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    You're right about Button, but I was talking about his performance last year. In my opinion, his 2011 driving was a step above what he did in his championship year. I used to think Hamilton had more raw talent than Button, but after he was completely beaten last year, I'm a little unsure. Button has always been a smooth and consistent driver, but this year I saw him taking a lot more risks and overtaking a lot more, and it paid off well. Button also clearly beat Webber, who was in a faster car.

    While we're on the subject, I have no idea what happened with Webber last year. He wasn't bad, but the fire that he had for so much of 2010 only flickered in 2011. I know he was regarded as the no.2 driver by the team and received car upgrades later and had second priority in pit stop strategy, but I could only see a spark here and there of his true potential. Do you remember his drive in China, where he started 18th, was 15th halfway through the race due to bad luck, but stormed home by driving two whole seconds a lap faster than anyone else to finish on the podium, only two seconds behind his teammate Vettel who started on pole? If he could drive like that all the time, no-one could touch him. Still, third place is commendable. Hopefully he will turn it up a notch next year.

    Kobayashi is definitely a driver to watch. Constantly fighting well above his weight, overtaking more experienced drivers in faster cars like it's no-one's business. I'm also placing the two new Torro Rosso drivers, Daniel Riccardo and Jean-Eric Vergne under a watchful eye, look forward to see what they can do in competitive cars. Force India could be a surprise, both their drivers are underrated.

    Kubica probably won't be racing competitively this season. He won't be fully capable to get back into a simulator or race car to resume training until this June. He is very determined to come back though, initially there were fears he could never use his hand again.
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  11. UnitRico Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, I think in the year he won championship, he just got a bit cocky after half a season and started slacking off.
    Last season, he did indeed show a lot more potential. As I said, I'm not following each race too closely, so as long as people don't start driving like Senna did, I don't think I'd notice aggressive driving too easily, but I'll watch out for it more often now.

    I think I do remember that race, it's always awesome to see a comeback like that. I think I remember Hamilton doing something similar. The thing with Hamilton seems to be that he's very unstable. Sometimes, he has a very good race, and other times, everything goes wrong for him.

    Yeah, I love Kobayashi, he's awesome. It's always good to see new drivers taking up the challenge, but they seem to rarely succeed. Let's hope they can make a difference for a change.

    Well, he did have quite the accident. It's a shame, though, I remember him being a pretty good driver himself.
  12. slydessertfox Total War Branch Head

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    Really? YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS!

    Anyway, one race that I remember well is when Massa had a pretty big lead going into the last few laps, and then his engine completely died.
  13. J.F.K the communist Member

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    I love F1. hate Lewis Hamilton love Fernando Alonso and Senna. if you are a fan of f1 watch Senna best film of 2011.
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  14. UnitRico Well-Known Member

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    They made a new film about him? I remember watching a very good documentary, but I don't think it's from 2011.
  15. ironchin Well-Known Member

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    Yeah they did, and it was excellent. Captures the feeling of that era of F1 very well, as well as Senna's emotions. Of course, there's some footage in it that you won't believe. I think it wasn't released in cinemas in the Netherlands, but you can pick up the DVD. Lend/recommend it to all of your friends, you don't need to be an F1 fan at all to enjoy it. It's gotten plenty of newcomers interested in Senna and F1 in general.

    God I wish I was an F1 fan back then. Back when the cars had little downforce and 400 more horsepower than they do today. Back when there were no electronic gadgets and automatic gearboxes to help you. Back when the drivers had as much skill and had testicles as large as those of Piquet, Mansell and Prost. Back in the time of Ayrton Senna.

    The trailer:


    Some clips from the film used in promotion:

    Just watch this guy drive. Constantly steering one handed because of the manual gearbox, millimetres from the metal barriers, almost no safety equipment, going on opposite lock a few times because there was little downforce and no traction control, 1200 raw horsepower blaring in his ears. Ended up crashing because he was so far in the lead that his team told him to slow down, making him lose his focus.


    An interview alongside his great rival, Alain Prost. The film does a brilliant job at highlighting their rivalry, and still showing Prost a lot of respect. You can see the tensions of the rivalry here, they might be trying to joke around, but their voice tones and body language tell a different story.
  16. ddbb089 Well-Known Member

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    I don't really 'watch' them.When there's a race on sunday I turn on the TV,listen to the monotone engine sounds and I sleep like a baby.
    As of a favourite pilot Alsonso was great in the previous championships when I actually watched it.
  17. J.F.K the communist Member

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    You have to get it out on DVD even if you did not like racing you would still love it.
  18. bender Well-Known Member

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    im not really into motor sports or any sports for that matter, but i do like f1.
    also nascar sucks noodles.
  19. ironchin Well-Known Member

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    Was at the second practice session today - the track is a few kilometres away from my school. If you've never been to an F1 race in person, you have no idea how loud the cars are. To give you an idea, throughout the day I could very clearly hear the engine roar of the cars practicing, even though I was in a closed door classroom multiple kilometres away, separated by a noisy bustling city suburb. Because the Melbourne track is not specialized and is made up of public roads, it's incredibly slippery when wet, especially with the lane markings. And it was pretty damn wet for the first hour and a half, resulting in several slides and spins. Kovalainen ran into the gravel right in front of where I was standing! Some were pretty spectacular, it's a miracle none of them resulted in any real damage to the cars. After a while the track dried out and the lap times tumbled.

    I know practice isn't a great indicator of race results, I gathered a few points:
    1. The Mercedes car is better than it was last year, and Schumi in particular was damn quick. The car is particularly impressive in straight-line speed.
    2. The entire field seems closer this year than last year, the midfield isn't far behind the frontrunners, and surprisingly the back-markers aren't as slow as they have been, except for HRT who are as shit as usual.
    3. Of the midfield, Force India and Toro Rosso stood out. Hulkenberg was very fast. Sauber is also quick, but their car seems less stable than the others, they had the most spins during the wet period.
    4. Not only was the Ferrari unimpressive, it was visibly hard to handle under cornering - Massa span it even though the track was almost dry by then. On the plus side, Massa was toe to toe with Alonso in terms of pace.
    EDIT 1: I'm going to be at the Australian GP on every day, and I'll report what I observe. Remember that everything I say is current, and that if there is one thing about F1 it's that it always changes and is impossible to predict.
    Qualifying
    • This year the cars might look butt ugly, but they do sound a lot nicer than last year. This is because the exhaust blown diffuser is banned this year, so the cars produce a much purer sound.
    • Also because of the EBD ban, the cars have less downforce in the corners, which translates to less grip and thus the cars are harder to drive. I saw a ridiculously high amount of mistakes at practice 3 and qualifying, almost all of them because the driver were having trouble adjusting to the fact that you had to drive slower through the corners compared to last year. (side note: I notice I'm making a lot of references to the now banned exhaust blown diffuser, I'll explain this if you don't understand)
    • In the first time all year anyone has shown their true pace, it's immediately clear that McLaren is quick. Seriously damn quick. For now, they are the team to beat, much like Red Bull were last year. The gap isn't massive, but it isn't marginal either.
    • For the past couple of years there has been a top tier of Red Bull, McLaren and Ferrari. This year it's probably McLaren, Red Bull, Mercedes and Lotus (formerly Renault).
    • The Ferrari is not only not very fast, it is very hard to handle. The rear end was sliding around way more than what looked comfortable. Alonso's spin that put him out in Q2 was caused indirectly by this: he knew his car struggled through the corners so as he approached a corner he went as far wide (to make the corner easier) as he dared, which was a little wider than the track was - he went on the grass a tiny bit (no more than a couple of inches), but that was enough to send him spinning off, at the end of which he couldn't get his car started. And I was wrong earlier about Massa'a pace - he was much slower than Alonso today.
    • Raikkonen was cut out in Q3, and will start 18th. This wasn't really because he was slow, it was mainly a matter of bad luck and timing - he opted to stay in until late, made a mistake at the worst possible time and just missed out on being able to do another lap. His teammate, Grosjean, was very impressive and ended up third on the grid, beating both Red Bulls and both Mercedes. No idea yet if they can maintain their speed well over a race distance. Raikkonen is struggling at the moment, though he has been away for over two years.
    • Red Bull was the team that had slowed down the most from last year. They still had the (probably) second fastest car, but it was a clear step back from McLaren. It was particularly slow on the straights, something that will hurt them more in the next two races, as those tracks have longer straights. Webber was faster than Vettel today.
    • As I said earlier, Mercedes were very fast on the straights. This is because their rear wing has less drag, the downside being it also has less downforce. It shows in the car's handling characteristics - the car has a lot of front grip, but not as much rear grip. This translates to the car darting into the corners very quickly, but accelerating on the way out of them is where they need to improve. Both drivers were roughly equal. I seriously think this year Schumi will finally get a podium post-comeback, and possibly a win.
    • A few teams have noticeably improved. Along with Mercedes and Lotus, Williams are probably the most improved team. Toro Rosso too, with Riccardo managing to get into Q1. Force India and Sauber were a little lacklustre. Marussia (formerly Virgin) have improved, HRT haven't, and were so slow that they won't be able to race tomorrow.
    • I noted this very interesting statistic:
      Approximate difference in qualifying speed in tenths of a second, 2011-2012
      McLaren -6
      Lotus -1
      Red Bull -20!
      Mercedes +1
      It says a lot about the cars last year and this year - Lotus and Mercedes never really mastered the EBD, McLaren utilized it well, but Red Bull's car seems to have relied on it.
  20. doody300 Well-Known Member

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    Id be more a Pro Drit person and I rather the rallies we have here with actuall old rally cars like Rs2000s,ae86s,sierras

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