Ancient History

Discussion in 'Historical Events Coffee House' started by GeneralofCarthage, Dec 1, 2011.

  1. Bart (Moderator) NKVD Channel Maintainer

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    Why wouldn't they? It is an emperor, right? Aren't they supposed to conquer shit?
  2. UnitRico Well-Known Member

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    That's what the Romans did, and boy did that work out well. An Emperor first of all rules and usually wants to stay powerful as long as possible. With the communication of back then, managing an intercontinental empire would've been an absolute nightmare. Again, the Chinese had plenty of rest and space, no reason to mess that up for a fancy expedition.
  3. Bart (Moderator) NKVD Channel Maintainer

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    The reason the Roman Empire collapsed was because of internal problems, and pretenders. The uprisings and attacks of barbarians didn't help either, but that wasn't the reason the Empire collapsed.

    Overextending'd be possible, but not likely for the Chinese, who had a pretty centralized government, IIRC.
  4. UnitRico Well-Known Member

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    Well, if we were to make a list of things that helped to the fall of the Roman Empire, we'd need to reserve about three pages for that on this topic...

    Still, I don't see what barbarian invasions would have anything to do with the Chinese being unsuccessful colonisers at the time. If anything the problem would be internal. If the colonies would demand independence, they could easily take it and the Chinese, if not informed in time, would have no means of putting a revolt down for a very long time.
  5. Bart (Moderator) NKVD Channel Maintainer

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    If the colonizers would fail, I don't know what'd be the problem. A few citizens died, the emperor would just loose some money. And if the colony would revolt, I wouldn't see much problems either. They wouldn't have it in the first place if they wouldn't have tried. And as for the communication, when Europeans started colonizing, we didn't have much advantages.
  6. Toast Well-Known Member

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    Where could they colonize in the first place? I doubt they could cross the Pacific, and even if they colonized Oceania it'd be an absolute nightmare of logistics and there were quite a lot of angry tribes. Not to mention that there's hardly any resources.
  7. C_G Well-Known Member

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    The emperor that planned the exploration sent his Junks all the way to the coast of Africa, then he died and the next emperor cancelled all future expeditions.
  8. UnitRico Well-Known Member

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    Ah, we were assuming the colonisers would've failed...my bad. But if they did manage to set up a successful colony, managing it from across the Pacific would be an administrative nightmare.
  9. Bart (Moderator) NKVD Channel Maintainer

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    Again:
    "As for the communication, when Europeans started colonizing, we didn't have much advantages."
  10. Achtung Kommunisten! Well-Known Member

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    Not much in the way of advantages, but advantages nonetheless I guess. Don't forget the Viking attempts to found colonies in America probably only lasted a generation or two - perhaps they are a better comparison with China?
  11. UnitRico Well-Known Member

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    Huh, I missed that sentence earlier on, strange...still, I don't know exactly how long ago the Chinese were capable of colonisation, or how different their ships were (weren't these those very slow floating fortresses?), but I do think the Europeans had an easier time reaching their colonies than the Chines would have, at least ship design wise (if I'm thinking of the right Chinese ships).
  12. Bart (Moderator) NKVD Channel Maintainer

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    I don't think so. The Chinese were one country, while the Vikings were just a number of tribes (with connections). The tribes in Greenland had to rely completely on their selves. The Chinese could send support and troops to their colonies like the Europeans could.
  13. Toast Well-Known Member

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    Chinese ships were clunky, but there was a huge amount of them. Some of them were even allocated to grow crops at sea atop their decks, if I recall correctly. They were definitely a lot slower and less advanced than European ships, but they were quite good at adapting to long sea voyages. Even then, I doubt they could ever cross the Pacific.
  14. Bart (Moderator) NKVD Channel Maintainer

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    They probably could, if the Chinese would colonize the islands. Like Hawaii.
  15. UnitRico Well-Known Member

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    That's what I was thinking about earlier on, kinda like what the Açores were for the Portuguese.
  16. Toast Well-Known Member

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    Just how long would it take to maneuver building materials from China to Hawaii to build a large enough port there to sustain that amount of ships? Plus, the ships didn't really have a clue of where they were going and so they weren't very accurate, especially not in a huge sea with no landmarks. Even if the Chinese did manage to colonize the east coast, do you know how long it would take to deliver a simple message from China to California?
  17. GeneralofCarthage Well-Known Member

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    Chinese history is too repetetive. It's lame and doesn't spark any intrest in my mind at all.
  18. The Evil Major Well-Known Member

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    It's not just about colonies, my mind the possibility of the continuation of chinese explorations was more about trade and not becoming isolated. China wouldn't have needed far away colonies (just yet) to be super power of those times.
    And also the chinese ships were superior those days, only flaw really was that you couldn't tack beat against the wind with them.
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  19. The Evil Major Well-Known Member

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    I also think that had the chinese continued their explorations (/had expanded them), they wouldn't have founded colonies but instead done what they had done, for example in Indonesia, on their historical journies: vassalised people (by diplomatic means).
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  20. C_G Well-Known Member

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    As opposed to European history? All history is repeated, it's an undeniable fact. From the collapse of the Romans to the collapse of the Hapsburgs. The causes are all similar. With China the effects that it had are much less clear, where as the effects European history are clear. Anyway, it's more 5000BC to 1400 that interests me about China. And Japanese history has always fascinated me.
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