Friends Without Benefits:Its Time to Say What We Already Know-America's Pakistan Policy isnt working

I've presented PROOF that their GDPs have been exploding when the West takes interest in them. And look, when places like Iran exclude the Americans like just recently and the 1980s, their GDPs take a turn for the worse.

Where's your fucking proof?

That's because the Dutch politicians aren't retarded. And by the way, "sucking the US' dick" isn't letting us negotiate trade pacts and maybe put a few soldiers in your country. That's simply being reasonable. In fact it would be unreasonable to throw us out.

That 'proof' fails to do anything. Your claim was that the vast majority of the popuation of the Middle East is economically benefiting from the U.S.'s presence. That graph can be as skewed as one of the intake of the U.S. The wealth distribution can be totally different from what you are claiming.

They certainly don't love you.
The common perception of the forums [with you being the exception] is that the Middle Eastern nations have at best, lukewarm relations with the U.S. I wonder why that is.
And have you provided proof of good relations with the Middle East?

I can't actually say for this particular part. The quote just happened to include 'hunger' in it. The 'happiness' portion was why I put up the quote.

Obviously they don't like their benefactors very much. And if you continue to expect to benefit from them, a change in attitude is called for. There was once a time when the U.S. was the sanest option for economic trading. Now the line has blurred and others have emerged that are just as capible of doing buisness with the Middle East. The people of the Middle East now have options in powerful trading partners.

Time and time again people in both Japan and South Korea call for the withdrawal of the U.S. presence.
And as nations become more 'democratic', the people will learn to defend their soverignty ever more vigourously. When the leaderships in the Middle East set up and supported by the U.S. fail, the people will not have so warm relations with the U.S.

I'll let others speak on Turkey. I don't have that much knowledge of what their on-U.S. policy is or what their people want.

The argument is circular. I say I didn't, you say I did, and so on. The fact is that I did not run out of ideas and that you have no ability nor right to say that I did.

A rise in GDP doesn't necessarily lead to an increase in human development or civil liberties, two things most people hold to a greater importance.
Not that you care about any of that, just throwing it out there.

Edit: Why would you even bother Imperial?

I would just like to say Turkey though it has a distrust of the U.S, it generaly likes them and its citizens. It is by fair the most democratic and western of the Islamic states, also when i went there i was treated very nice by the locals who kindly showed me Istanbul's many sights and wonders.

On a side note: Never ever ever mention the Armenian genocide.

Because sometimes someone has to err on the sides of soverignty and pointing out obvious facts. The post in which you asked my this question is an example of the latter.

And sometimes people want to procrastinate on their mathematics work, so they go to online forums where they can make others look stupid.

I'm by no means perfect, but that does not mean that I cannot say stuff. It is when I try to force others to act that the problem usually comes in.

Fine. Fair warring, expect tons of contradictions, baseless assumptions and opinions stated as facts.

I think Turkey would be a good ally. They're trying to join the EU, which would make an alliance more applicable.

1. Donno what you mean by 'warring'. I assume that you mean so-called 'flame-wars' or some kind of heated debating.
2. When you delve into information that you have never seen or had time to digest, contradictions can pop up. And for that matter, some countries operate on contradictions, even long after they have been pointed out.
3. That is why people like Kali are nice sometimes. They demand proof [and so do I, more and more, of late] and concrete evidence. It can be convinent sometimes and inconvient others. Especially inconvienitent when the information simply does not exist.
4. Depends. Opinions CAN BE facts sometimes. For example: the question as to the attitude of the Middle East towards the U.S. While his responce may not carry the weight of all the Middle East's opinions of the U.S., some residents, like Matt, can give some on-the-ground perspectives that can be invaluble in making a somewhat sound assumption or backing up the ligitimacy of a questioned [reasonably or otherwise] poll of opinions.
Keep in mind that the opinions of the people ALWAYS hold the majority sway in politics, law, order, tradition, etc.

Slow down buddy. I was just telling you what to expect when you're going at it with Kara.

isn't Turkey in NATO?

Yes

http://www.nato.int/cps/en/natolive/nato_countries.htm

There is huge talk about Turkey and the E.U, i support turkey becoming a member of the E.U

This is how they should be stated. The worst thing you can do to your own argument is make your assertions your opinion. It's implicitly understood that saying something like "Afghanistan is evil," is an opinion. You are being redundant and a pansy by prefacing your assertions with "I believe," or "it's my opinion that," or similar hogwash.

Bah. Mind games and never ending circles. Putting the undeniable behind your arguments is not only more effective, but also gives you the bonus of being genuinely correct.

Nothing is certain.

Nonsense. practically everything is measurable in someway, and even If we don't have the full picture now its simply because we have yet to find all the pieces. Worst case scenario is you're wrong.
At which point you have to ask yourself: "Is being proven wrong really a bad thing?"

It's hubris to think that it's even possible to understand the 'full picture,' let alone we humans do so.

Bugger, I think I do that all the time on here. I guess that explains why I believe that I think people think I talk crap.