The Socialist Thread

Those collective farms were more or less really state farms, also whether or not socialism works is another debate, I told you what socialism is.

I would described myself as a Marxist-Leninist (communist) I might change though pretty soon. I've been situated on anarcho-syndicalism. I feel that variant of anarchism pretty awesome. I'm safe to say that I'm alright with Trade Unionists having power. But as it stands I might stay where I am right now and that is communism.

Social democracy isn't socialist. It still has remnants of the capitalist model in society, or the economy is completely under control by capitalists. So, no way can you consider social democracy to be in the family of socialism.

I don't feel like doing this right now. So.. *Waits for Lenin cat to pwn him*

*Lenny'd.

Wait, how are collective farms relevant?

Well, in the USSR, the workers didn't own the means of production. It was the state. So as lenny said, they were State farms. Dictatorship of the Proletarian, friend.

You

Ummmm. Far from it. If anything, it seems like I've attracted some social democrats here myself. And by the way, let's see some "real" socialism then.

I'm waiting...

The post above yours.

Anarchist Catalonia, Free Zone of Ukraine, 1917-1918 Russia, Paris Commune, Socialist Chile......

Probably a liberal of some sort. My political compass is like economics -9.72 and social -9.8.

No bro, how are they relevant to the discussion at hand?

I think what we may have here is a fundamental break down in communication. Refer to Pedro's post.

Majority of the farms in the Soviet Union were state owned, nonetheless everything was state owned in the Soviet socialists workers state. There might of been that pseudo-communal farm that was owned by the peasants, but that could be highly speculative.

mdhookey, socialism and capitalism are 100% incompatible. There is nothing socialist about free healthcare or welfare, and you cannot claim to be a socialist if you support the capitalist model.

He said something about the USSR having collectivized farms. There is a difference between 'Collectivized farms' and 'State collectivized farms'.

All failed, miserably. Even Marx didn't think the Paris Commune didn't live up to its name. He complained bitterly that the Commune didn't touch the Bank of France, and even asked loans from it. Not a very "socialist" thing to do.

Anarchist Catalonia suffered from internal fighting between the Left towards the end of the Spanish Civil War. Orwell was pretty explicit about the breakdown of trust between the Anarchists and Marxists.

Socialist Chile? Well, that was brought down by foreign intervention (the CIA). That's a whole other topic I won't get into.

And as for the reply about the Soviet Union being a Dictatorship of the Proletariat (which it was...no question), it was called a worker's state. Even Lenin himself said they were a worker's state: "Our Party Programme—a document which the author of the ABC of Communism knows very well—shows that ours is a workers’ state with a bureacratic twist to it. We have had to mark it with this dismal, shall I say, tag."

Dang, pretty extreme... I guess my results were the product of the crap we call the American School System.

Social democracy supports Keynesian economics just like to throw that out there

Uhh also is it possible to be a Trotskyist but still like Stalin? (Also your takes on Titoism, Hoxhaism and Albania)

I am not debating whether socialism can work with you, its not worth my time to rage over you. This is besides the point, social democracy is not socialism.

Yah, the Soviet Union said they were a workers state, and I say I am a giant jew monster who eats babys.

Scarecrows everywhere! Strawmen as far as the eye can see!

And how do they taste? I like mine buttery.

You can rage all you want. But you still need to give me a successful model of your brand of socialism. I keep seeing failures. Please show a success!

Either way hookey, social democracy is not socialist.