Why did the Middle East decline?

Discussion in 'Historical Events Coffee House' started by Greorgy Zhukov, Apr 12, 2012.

  1. Greorgy Zhukov New Member

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    Until the late Middle Ages, the Muslim Middle East was at least as economically developed and advanced as Europe. Then, beginning in the 14th century, Europeans pulled ahead, while the Islamic world gradually declined. By the 19th century, European economic influence and superior technology had translated into political domination of the Middle East. The Islamic world has never fully recovered, and that disparity feeds resentment today.

    which factors caused this?
  2. Kali The World's Best Communist

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    Islam was the primary factor here. Unlike Christian Europe, which would embrace the merchant class, the Muslim Middle East maintained an extremely strict religious/social hierarchy that severely impacted economic liberty and intellectual development. For Christians, the fundamental questions of religion were theological, and typically reserved for the clergy to deal with. For Islam, theology is largely irrelevant, and questions of policy are the primary concern.

    One of the great cataclysms of Islamic civilization, and in my opinion, the greatest, is the closing of 'the great gate of knowledge and reason,' ijtihad. People were neither expected nor allowed to question the status quo, and it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out why that stunted the development of their civilization. Even today, ijtihad is considered unorthodox at best, and shunned by mainstream Islam and Muslims.

    Islamic theology was all but outright illegal (in many cases, even that), and questions of policy were decided directly by religious interpretation. Religious legalism killed economic growth and shattered rational inquiry. If we look at the various apexes of Islamic civilization, the common thread running through them all is that influence from the ulama and religious legalism as a whole are kept in check. In Andalus, the Maghreb, and much of the Abbasid period as a whole, economic and social practices were not constrained by the ulama.

    So, in summation, you can blame Islam, the ulama, and the closing of ijtihad.
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  3. Karakoran Well-Known Member

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    Well what Kali said and because the lead on Europe was a false lead. Fuck, after a Muslim invasion, a Mongol invasion, the fall of the Byzantine Empire, the dividing of the HRE, and Western Europe busy in the 100 Years War it's not surprise the Muslims were ahead after peace internally, organized societies, and technological progress.

    But because Western Culture simply better facilitates technological progress Europe was set to take a place as the dominate power once again. With the discover of the New World an two more continents of resources and land the process was sped up ten fold.

    From there the Muslims started eating each other and after a few hundred years the Arabs were either a bunch of fucking tribals or subjugated by the Turks. And of course, the Turks were dying and only kept alive by the British and French in order to stop the Russians.
  4. PineappleJoe Well-Known Member

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    They started blowing themselves up...
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  5. pedro3131 Running the Show While the Big Guy's Gone

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    I don't think either of you guys really answered his question though. None of the factors mentioned changed between the Muslim dominance of the dark/middle Ages versus the European dominance of the rest of history. There might be something to say about the influence of the crusades as a potential catalyst for the rebirth of European intellectualism, but why all of a sudden did Muslim growth stop?
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  6. Greorgy Zhukov New Member

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    excactly what I wan to know,
    It's not hard to figure out that the crusaders bought new technologies, filosofies, mathematik numbers (the number system we use today is actually arabic)
    this of cource made it easier for europe to get back up to speed so to speak ;)

    what I think is to blame for the decline of the middle east is actually a mix of Islamism, foreign invasions (and destruction of the largest learning centers) and the east india trade company.

    Islamism is much more strict and influencial in daily life than christianity,
    it has many laws that one has to follow.
    the law that hurt the middle east the most economically is probebly the inheritence law.

    it states that the whole dead man's male relatives (women are not allowed to inherit) split his holding between them when he dies, this made it impossible to make huge global companies that they had in europe because generelly no company would survive the death of it's founder.

    foreign invasions, mainly the crusades and the mongol invasion destroyed many of the central learning areas in the middle east, no one wanted to build them back up because the qur'an provided enough education for the general population.

    this made it very hard for them to research new technologies and ideas.

    lastly the silk road had been a steady source of income for the middle east but when the east indian trade company was established caravans did'nt go the land route through the middle east as the sea route was safer.
    this was probebly a major blow to the economy
  7. Kali The World's Best Communist

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    The ulama seized power and closed ijtihad. As I said, the apexes of Islamic civilization all occurred at times when the ulama lacked significant influence over policy or public opinion.
  8. GeorgykZhukov Well-Known Member

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    The Growth of Europe and the Mongol Aftermath. The Crusades hit the middle east early, then the mongols came, leaving a bloody footprint. by the time the west started to get their hands on it, it was slipping down the slope.
  9. freeman12 Well-Known Member

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    Simply put i think it's because the middle east never had to fight as many different enemies as the Europeans. Hell they had to deal with mongols, The black death, A ridiculous amount of war and fighting etc.
    Simply put the Europeans got more advanced because it was always in competition with a bunch of other nations that were advancing at the same rate. There was also the fact the Europeans gained access to allot of knowledge
    after the reconquista of Spain plus the fact that the Muslim nations never had to fight as many varied enemies as the Europeans and thus Europeans were always advancing because if they did not they would lose their country.
  10. GeorgykZhukov Well-Known Member

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    Well, to be fair, the middle east had the black plague before Europe, that's how they got it, and the Mongols hit the middle east as well. Also, the Muslims were the ones who ignited the Europeans' drive for knowledge, because life was utter Sh*t in Europe, but it was much more advanced and generally better in the middle east, so the Crusading Europeans coming home were like "Let's advance too!", and there was born European advancement.
  11. yuri2045 A Marines Biologist

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    Religion made them backwards.
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  12. Byzantium's Revenge Well-Known Member

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    The golden age of Islam was only made possible by the Byzantine Empire; the lands taken for Islam from the Byzantines gave them access to the cultural, technological and philosophical advances their newly conquered subjects had made under the banner of Constantinople. Once this knowledge was exhausted, the Muslim nations stagnated.
    It's no coincidence that the European Renaissance happened so soon after the sudden influx of Byzantine refugees fleeing the fall of Constantinople.
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  13. Achtung Kommunisten! Well-Known Member

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    I'd say it's because while Western Europe threw off Catholic conservatism, there was no similar reformation in the east. No offence to the Catholics, but the Roman Catholic Church was against the spread of knowledge just as much as the Islamic leaders who banned printing as Kali mentioned.
    If being able to read the bible revolutionised Christianity, not being able to read the Koran did the opposite for Islam. So it's not the fault of Muslims so much as their leaders.
  14. yuri2045 A Marines Biologist

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    I wouldn't say the spread of knowledge per see, but more the kind of knowledge that would take away the power of the Church.
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  15. slydessertfox Total War Branch Head

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    Like being able to read Latin?
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  16. yuri2045 A Marines Biologist

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    Exactly, if you can't read it, you don't know what it says, you only know what people tell you.
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  17. slydessertfox Total War Branch Head

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    And then they can tell you all the bullshit they want.
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  18. C_G Well-Known Member

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    My opinion is this that after a period of enlightment technology will almost always stagnate. In order for it to not stagnate there has to be another, long term, stimulus for the technological development to increase. In the Middle East there was no such long term stimulus availabe to them, where as in Europe you had the rennaisance and the discocery of the Americas to provide the long term stimulus that is needed.
  19. darthdj31 City States Map Director

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  20. Dreagon Well-Known Member

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    And the European nations were constantly fighting each other. I'm pretty sure that helped too.

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