What I hate about the way Americans think

Discussion in 'The Political/Current Events Coffee House' started by General Mosh, May 5, 2012.

  1. General Mosh Citystates Founder!

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    I went and posted on my facebook this:
    This one's gonna get me killed but here goes: fireman and policeman are NOT heroes. A hero jumps on a live grenade to save a friend. A hero jumps in front of a bullet for someone. A hero runs into a burning building and kills himself to save an infant. A hero doesn't arrest people for driving under the influence or smoking. That's a job.

    I was then spammed with messages calling me a "fucking nazi", a "freedom hating terrorist", and a "Korean son of a bitch". Apparently, just because I don't think all soldiers who die in the line of action are heroes, means that I don't respect our armed forces. I mean, really?

    So, what do you guys think about this? By the way, I do remember we had a thread a while back that discussed why soldiers in action weren't heroes. I also hate how Americans claim "Oh, they're putting their lives on the line for your freedom". I'm thinking, what idiots, how are a bunch of poor afghan insurgents who have probably never gone 100 miles from their home in their lives threatening my freedom?

    So....discuss.
  2. thelistener Well-Known Member

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    If somebody is a hero for jumping on a live grenade to save a friend,is it not equally heroic to go in to a building on fire, facing perhaps death to save people they don't know, they never met. and Sometimes dying trying to save people they dont know.

    About afghan war: if you think it through, it does make kinda sense when people say:"they are keeping you safe"
    because if us had pulled out 7 years ago, al Qaeda and its neighborhood kids would have went back to Afghanistan to be sheltered by the Taliban and thus be able to plan and make strikes against the us.
  3. General Mosh Citystates Founder!

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    Yes, but hero is a VERY strong word. It should be reserved for those who do really heroic acts, not for people who are just doing their job. Sure, saving people from a fire at a risk to themselves is a great act, they are great people. But are they heroes? That is their job. Saying a soldier is a hero for fighting (which is their job) and then dying (which they know can happen) sounds great, but its not true in reality. Using that logic, I could say a hooker is a hero for doing her job and getting killed while doing it.
    Fair enough. But I'm pretty sure we've killed most of the real fanatics. I'm sure that 90% of insurgents we are fighting are only fighting us because of our perceived occupation of their country.

    Also, for those Brits out there, my friends know I'm half British and I very much preferred England over the US. Because of that, they decided a legitimate argument would be to tell me to go back to England and do nothing like the rest of "them tea drinkin bastards". At this point, my respect for my friends knowledge went much lower. And then, to top off their ignorance, my friends (who also know my semi socialist ideology) decided to tell me I should go and live back in Soviet Russia. They then tried to tell me that they bet "youd love it under them fucking tzars and their communist fat bullshit". At THIS point, I gave up. I proceeded to troll them and started preaching about the "fascist American propaganda" and how "America deserves a dose of occupation" and "the Imperialist fatcats on Wall Street should kill themselves". The funny thing was, they believed I actually meant it. I deleted the facebook post, by the way.
  4. The Shaw Rawnald Gregory Erickson the Second

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    Firemen are heroes, there one job is to save people. A Policeman is a bully, his one job is to meet an arrest quota so his branch won't lose funding and he won't be out a job and some cash. The only person who would want a job where you have to punish people for driving just over the speed limit, smoking pot, or having sex with a prostitute (or even worse, pretending to be a prostitute just so you can arrest they guy when he tries to pay you) is a person who gets satisfaction from putting people down and walking around with a badge and a gun.

    And a minute long conversation with any recruit about why he joined the army will let you know that those sick fuckers aren't heroes either.
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  5. thelistener Well-Known Member

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    1. So what if its their job. I "understand" if you mean:" its stupid to say ALL of them are heroes" but aren't they? Butting their life on the line and being good at their job otherwise they wouldn't be there

    This is the definition of the word hero from (thefreedictionary.com and dictionary.com)

    1. A man distinguished by exceptional courage,nobility,fortitude etc

    2. A man who idealized for possessing superior qualities in any field

    2. The remaining Taliban would harbor terrorist again. But the thing you meant by:"only fighting us because of our perceived occupation of their country." are small organizations that are placed under the banner called Taliban. Also if the 90% of the enemy forces would want ONLY that what you say, they wouldn't shoot and bomb their own country man now would they
  6. Yarpen Well-Known Member

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    REAL hero.
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  7. slydessertfox Total War Branch Head

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    Mosh, you forget that in many cases, firefighters are volunteers. Many of them havve regular everyday jobs, and they choose to put themselves in a position where they very well know that they can die trying to save a person, whom they never meant, probably would never have met, or will have virtually no impact on them in the future, because they want to save them. The one's that are volunteers, have no reason to put themselves in that situation, other than they want to. No ordinary human being in their right mind would put themselves in life threatening danger that there is no reason for them to be in, without anything to gain from it.

    Does that mean all firefighters are heroes? No. Does that mean, the firefighter that decides to rush into the house and lead the way when all the other firefighters are convinced that it is a suicide mission is a hero? Does that mean the person that saves an elderly person from dying of smoke inhalation, or a baby,is a hero? Yes. Some firefighters go in, not because there is a human they are trying to save, but maybe a dog or a cat.


    On to police officers. Any police officer that works in cities like Camden, Philly, New York, or even LA, are heroes.
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  8. General Mosh Citystates Founder!

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    But not ALL fireman are heroes. More of them are heroes than fucking cops and soldiers, but not all of them are. Not even close to all of them are. You said it, there job is to save people. I'll call someone a hero when they're doing it for something they truly believe in. Ghandi is a hero. Your local firefighter is not, I'm afraid, on the same level as Ghandi or Ross McGinnis or Jack Lucas.
    But that doesn't make them all heroes! The majority of firefighters are not volunteers. For the majority, its their JOB. I'd rather be saved by someone who wants to save me rather than someone just doing their job. And even if they do, I'm still not going to consider them a hero. I don't consider the man who put out my burning house to be on the same level as Paul R. Smith or Dakota Meyer or Jeff Novack. Those people deserve the title hero. Not your average firefighter.
    What do you think I'm trying to say? I'm trying to say exactly this. But this isn't the majority of firefighters.
    @The Shaw, you wanna take this one?
    But they aren't heroes! If you died in a helicopter explosion because an afghan insurgent got lucky, or if you die in a roadside IED blast, then you aren't a hero. If you run out into the middle of the field to draw enemy fire and allow 36 allied soldiers to escape with their lives, then you are a hero. I'm not saying these people aren't good people. I'm just saying that you have to draw the line somewhere. Its not fair to the REAL heroes, those that actually deserve the term, and their families, to call every American soldier who dies, every policeman or firefighter who dies a hero. We have never before done that in history. In my opinion, its another result of the American people getting soft. We lost almost four hundred thousand people in World War 2. The American people didn't complain. We haven't even lost 4000 in this war yet, and our people are yelling their heads off and screaming bloody murder.
    The Taliban are terrorists, not just harboring them....
    No, they are called insurgents. The majority of people that want every American dead were killed in the first 10 years of these wars. So, what, are we now going to spend the next 10 years killing those that are upset because we have destroyed their already shitty countries. And then we'll spend the next 10 years after that killing those children that saw their fathers killed by American soldiers and hate us now too. You know what, lets just nuke the whole damn country off the face of the Earth!
  9. Kali The World's Best Communist

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    So you hate getting flamed for posting your controversial bullshit opinion on Facebook? I mean, you'd have to be seriously dense to expect that no one is going to get upset about you saying something like this.

    You can claim that they're just doing a job, but that's a disservice to the people that actually do these things, and you clearly know that. Even if you believe the garbage that you posted, you should know better than to say something like it, because you're going to be seen as a prick, and deservedly so.

    This really serves as nothing more than evidence of your spoiled, ignorant, youth. Of course, we could tell that much from the title.
  10. slydessertfox Total War Branch Head

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    Everything except the last couple sentences of kalis post i agree with.
  11. General Mosh Citystates Founder!

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    Oh no, I don't dislike getting flamed. Why do you think I posted it? I just hate the pure ignorance of the kids at my school. They said the czars (which they spelt tzars) were socialist overlords. I mean, how wrong can you get?
    I want over this with my dad, and several of his friends, who all happen to be in the armed services. They all 100% agreed with me. And then my friend goes on and says "I hope to be one of the guys protecting your ass, and if you don't call me a hero I'll kill you". I mean, really?
    Spoiled? Please, spare me.
    Ignorant? lol
    Youth? Your only four years older than me....

    And I wrote the title in order to get people to come to the thread. And because yes, I hate the way these particular Americans seem to think in their twisted and egotistical minds.

    I love how just like yesterday you attacked Ler for ignoring an argument, and then you completely ignore mine.
  12. thelistener Well-Known Member

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    [/quote]
    1. Well (lets go academic) yes they are. I would call the navy seals who killed Osama bin laden heroes. But IF one of them got killed when the helicopter crashed, he would still be hero. Because the mission in it self was heroic. So every soldier that dies in Afghanistan are heroes, because the mission is heroic. (mission is to secure a better tomorrow for afghan people)

    2. You know what I mean

    3. The point is not that the Taliban want every American dead and "thus we need to kill them all", but if they get to power again they will harbor people that do. Also you train and prepare the afghan people to take care of them self's. I don't know what are you talking about or to who when you say:" So, what, are we now going to spend the next 10 years killing those that are upset because we have destroyed their already shitty countries"
  13. slydessertfox Total War Branch Head

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    Maybe because I saw nothing to argue, because I didn't necessarily disagree with anything you said in that post?
  14. Kali The World's Best Communist

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    That doesn't negate any of your personal ignorance.
    No self-respecting individual will pick a fight with you and claim that they were heroes. Unlike yourself, they clearly have some semblance of tact and decency.
    He's just as much of a spoiled, ignorant, youth as you are.
    It's not a matter of speculation. It's a matter of objective fact. You live in relative luxury, as do most of us, and even though you don't have to experience hardship personally, you feel like you have the capacity to make judgements about the character and worth of individuals who do. I resent the kind of people who will openly disrespect soldiers, firemen, policemen, etc., because even if they don't deserve our respect, we are more civilized for giving it to them.
    You are incredibly ignorant. You have no right to be upset at this reaction. You claim to know that much yourself. That means you posted it solely because you're a spoiled attention whore.
    Come talk to me when you can write a proper sentence. I don't claim that I'm not a youth. However, I also don't go around insulting my elders or try to claim that age isn't a major factor in the validity of an opinion. I recognize, and have always recognized, that my opinion at any given time is likely invalid, and that no new ideas have crossed my mind. At the same time, I see little kids like you who run around pretending to actually know something, and am truly sickened.
    Point in fact.
    Again, you prove to be nothing more than a spoiled attention whore.
  15. CoExIsTeNcE LeonTrotsky in Disguse

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  16. Yarpen Well-Known Member

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    This is what happens when FascistPatriot stop making threads.

    Really?
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  17. General Mosh Citystates Founder!

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    I disagree. The mission may have been heroic, but that doesn't mean those that did it are heroes. If I died in a helicopter crash while on my way to kill public enemy #1, I wouldn't want to be called a hero. I would rather my comrade in arms who jumped on a grenade to save his four squad members be called a hero. And that's exactly what the service members I talk to say. They want those that deserve it to be called heroes, they don't see themselves as heroes and don't want to be called heroes.

    ....ummmm.....
    I was talking to you when I said we were going to spend the next 10 years killing those who despise us for destroying what was already an impoverished and war torn country. We tore it up more, and no matter what we try to do for the Afghan people, they still hate us and want us out. And it doesn't help when our "heroes" burn their holy book or massacre innocent civilians.
    Fair enough.

    @CoExIsTeNcE, its not my personal business....in fact nothing about that post was personal....And I'm sure you've seen some of the things people post on their facebooks, its scary how much they tell you.
  18. thelistener Well-Known Member

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    @General Mosh I will answer in the morning, BTW the "thus we need to kill them all" was sarcasm
  19. General Mosh Citystates Founder!

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    Thank god. You had me scared for a while there.
  20. Melanthropist Well-Known Member

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    I generally dislike it when words are over used. After awhile they lose their emotional effectiveness for me and it makes someone who uses the word a lot intensely boring. But mosh, you should probably stop trying to define what a "hero" is.

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