Nazi Victory, Was it really possible?

Discussion in 'Historical Events Coffee House' started by Sokol-1, Nov 22, 2011.

  1. Sokol-1 Well-Known Member

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    You return home from your jolly time travel adventure in ancient Greece, having saved the world and being careful not to upset history and.. hold on a moment? Are those swastikas?! Hanging from the White House?!

    Talked to the wrong person? Nazi victory! Left technology back before the dinosaurs were wiped out? Nazi victory! Stepped on a bug? Nazi victory! Prevented a Nazi victory? Nazi victory!

    Interestingly, in reality, a Nazi victory (though depending on how one actually defines "victory") seems to have been quite improbable. The Allies were in reality much more powerful in many ways— including both population and industrial capacity— than the Axis. There was no single, easily changeable factor contributing to the Allied success, and it is likely that many changes to history would be needed for Germany to have a decent chance of winning.

    Was it really possible for them to win in the first place?
  2. Romulus211 Proconsul

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    If Operation Sea lion would have been launched The USA would have been Isolated and Hitler could have Focused on the Reds, Who knows in that universe Hitler never Declared war on the USA.
  3. battleearl Well-Known Member

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    If the Germans won the war... He would probably speak German right now!
  4. yuri2045 A Marines Biologist

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    Operation Sea Lion would never work with the technology at the time, the problem is not crossing the channel per see, the problem is carrying a force of more than 2 millions soldiers across it, with the danger of the Royal Navy + the US navy threatening the landing troops, you have to take into account Britain's mountaneous shores, there would have been so few good landing spots to attack, that the millions of brittish and american soldiers waiting for the Germans to come, make it simply impossible. Plus Stalin was going to attack Hitler anyway, so he was doomed from the start.
    Warburg likes this.
  5. Toast Well-Known Member

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    Britain was on the verge of collapse. If Hitler just concentrated his efforts into pummeling Britain, they would have surrendered. He would have just put Oswald Mosley at the head of them. Then, he could have just beat the shit out of the Soviets and won.

    Alternatively, if he ran through Russia as a "liberator", he would have gained much more power in Russia and won the war. If he did this instead of massacring civilians Stalin would be defenseless.
  6. yuri2045 A Marines Biologist

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    True about Britain collapsing, but he'd have to invade it in any scenario to make them surrender.
    I don't know about Hitler being a liberator, because the soviets called this war "The Great Patriotic War" so many of them would be willing do die for their country and not join the nazis and even after massacring those officers in Katyn, the Polish still saw the Soviets as "liberators".
  7. Toast Well-Known Member

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    I think he could have at least made the British make peace after huge bombings of infrastructure, factories and civilians.

    The Russians weren't very patriotic in the first place after the Holodomor and the Purges. The Soviet propaganda could only hide so much. I agree that there would still be fierce resistance, but not enough to stop the Germans.
  8. Bart (Moderator) NKVD Channel Maintainer

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    I agree. And it would be nice if Japan wouldn't have attacked the US too, 'cause that could have also made things a little bit easier.
  9. battleearl Well-Known Member

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    The US wans't at war with the Germans in 1940...
  10. yuri2045 A Marines Biologist

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    Oops, little historical slip.
  11. D3adtrap www.twitter.com/d3adtrap | Mr. Choc: Coco Fruits

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    German victory, not Nazi victory, yes it was possible. Germans & Italians hammer Brits in Europe, while Japan takes out it's colonies in Asia & Australia.
  12. yuri2045 A Marines Biologist

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    It automatically becomes impossible when you throw in soviets in the mix
  13. Toast Well-Known Member

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    That's something I doubt. Japan wasn't going to advance farther than Burma or more south than New Guinea. That's enough, though, Java and Borneo was quite a boost. As for the Italians, they can't fight.
  14. D3adtrap www.twitter.com/d3adtrap | Mr. Choc: Coco Fruits

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    Japs would have resources to advance (If not @ war /w US) and Italians still have to be shot, they are great cannon fodder. Do you have any idea how low was UK on supplies & money. Besides, as Brits are having sexy time killing Italians, Germans can start shooting at them tea lovin' fucks.
  15. yuri2045 A Marines Biologist

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    The Japanese did advance up to New Guinea, they were planning a invasion on Australia already, but they couldn't even take on the Chinese, imagine the US, that was their biggest mistake I think to tell the truth.
  16. Toast Well-Known Member

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    It doesn't matter about supplies and money when it comes to India and the surrounding area. The terrain just isn't right, Japan hadn't even finished off China yet. It's certainly a possibility if China was defeated, but I don't see it happening until then, which could take a really long time. I think the Brits would have surrendered before Japan would have the possibility to invade India. Italians needn't be cannon fodder when all they'd be tasked with doing is taking Malta and holding on to Africa, though I understand this is very problematic for Italians.

    I know they took New Guinea, I'm saying they weren't going to get farther than that. Especially not taking Australia. Blockading them, yes, they even managed to attack Sydney at one point if I'm correct. But definitely not landing in Australia.
  17. D3adtrap www.twitter.com/d3adtrap | Mr. Choc: Coco Fruits

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    They most sertainlly could defeat Australian & British navy for sure...
  18. Benerfe Well-Known Member

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    Poland fell (Signs pact with Russia), France Fell, Germany air raids britain but loses a ton of bombers, Germany backstabs Russia triggering Operation Barbarossa ( The largest land invasion ever).

    Operation Barbarossa was led by three army groups. Army group North attacked Leningrad, Army Group Centre pushes toward Moscow, and Army group South was to attack the Crimea, Caucas oil fields and the city of STALINgrad. All of these were possible the Russians could not stand up to Germans yet.. But after a while, after poor German planning for winter (thinking they would win before winter) was a blunder.

    Then Hitler started to get in the way of his Generals and split army group south up to take two different objectives the oil fields and STALINgrad.

    Thats when winter came and fucked over the Germans. And German Sixth Army gets wiped out in Stalingrad ( they could have retreated and regrouped but Hitler said he would not leave the Volga.) They still had a chance at Kursk but that didn't work and Germany was on the run.

    Japan could have attacked Russia from the east but, Russia had some of their veterans over there and that would not go nicely for the Japs.

    The scenario is played many times in my Axis and Allies Board game, Axis needs Russia Allies Need Germany.
  19. Bart (Moderator) NKVD Channel Maintainer

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    You miss spelled STALIN!grad. ;-)
    Cover and Benerfe like this.
  20. slydessertfox Total War Branch Head

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    Well Hitler came very near to destroying the British Royal Airforce. The only thing that stopped him was instead of continueing to fight the RAF directly like he had done a succeeded in previously, he changed it up and bombed the major cities instead of finishing off the RAF. If he destroys the RAF, then Britain is helpless. Also, the Italians would need to take Malta but that would not be easy considering they are the Italians. In the east, if the Hitler actually let his generals do the work, I think they would have had a pretty decent chance at beating the Soviets. When the Germans first marched into Soviet territory, the people there treated them as liberators. Then they started the massacres...

    As for Japan, right before Pearl harbor ( a couple hours I believe), the Americans wanted to re-start the negotiations from scratch but by then the Japanese had already resigned to duking it out with the United States. If they had not gone to war with America however, I think they very well could have taken over Australia although I do believe an invasion of Australia and a German invasion of Britain would have brought the US into the war regardless.

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